Desmog CA EVAP, PAIR Valves...

[tony_fury]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Neither of these sytems will have any affect on performance pro or con, iand you will probably save more weight if you leave your phone at home. Removeing the Pair will only help if you have a decel gurggle or popping. As far as the emissions, you guys kill me, you have no problem gutting or junking your catalytic convrter, but don't want to remove the pair ? ROFLMAO

nicely said... lol

[Area808]

Originally Posted by Clueless

Neither of these sytems will have any affect on performance pro or con, iand you will probably save more weight if you leave your phone at home. Removeing the Pair will only help if you have a decel gurggle or popping. As far as the emissions, you guys kill me, you have no problem gutting or junking your catalytic convrter, but don't want to remove the pair ? ROFLMAO

I feel guilty enough from just changing my exhaust!
Yes, it was environmentally irresponsible!
Now I just couldn't bear the thought of removing the PAIR also!

[chopped]

I would only do it if there were documented gains from removing it.

[460brevill]

i took my plazma cutter,made a couple of block offs and trashed all that crap.including cats.

[furious_blue]

Originally Posted by djdiscman

I should have put a disclaimer on my posting:

IF YOU CHOSE TO MAKE THESE MODIFICATIONS, AL GORE WILL NOT BE HAPPY WITH YOU!

And if by chance Al Gore calls you from his private jet to tell you how disappointed he is, please remind him that his jet has released more hydrocarbons in the last 10 seconds than your bike will release in its entire life.

Just kidding furious_blue! You are right. We should all try and do our part to clean up the environment. Heck, that might be why some of us are riding a bike in the first place.

ha ha.. that's good :-)

Those that don't live in Calif, or who are under the age of, oh.. 40 ?
Here's the deal...
Unlike some more wide-open or less densely populated states, some regions of CA (like LA) are very densely populated and have regional air that can get trapped and linger in areas. This includes the air that comes out of tailpipes.

In my younger days, before all the smog control laws got really serious, I can remember going with my family to visit LA and literally not be able to see the next block down the street clearly due to all the pollution in the air, pollution that you had no choice but to breathe. It was pretty bad !

Since all the CA smog laws, which have been more stringent than the rest of the US, the air is generally a lot better now. If you haven't seen (or breathed) how bad it can get, I know it's hard to get a gut feel for how serious the problem really was (thankfully, 'was' and not 'is', and it's the pollution controls that cleaned it up).

[tony_fury]

yea, leaving by the beach, it pushes all the smog inland.. sux to be them..

I love it when your inland and the atmosphere changes to moist air at night and all the smog slime dumps on your car.. oh what a nice surprise..

[REDNECK-76]

Originally Posted by djdiscman

There are a few reasons to do these mods. First, the items I removed are completely unnecessary. The factory installs them only for SMOG purposes and they actually make your bike perform worse (the factory would not install these items if the government didn't force them to). Second, the items removed add unnecessary weight to your bike. Third, this mod simplifies the fuel system and exhaust system (less potential problems in the future). Your bike will perform exactly how it is supposed to perform.

I mentioned backfiring / popping on deceleration because I know a lot of Fury owners changed their pipes or drilled out the stock pipes and they created a problem of popping every time they decel. Blocking off the PAIR valves should eliminate any popping they are experiencing.

Read this for more info: Biglry's desmog mod for the VTX

WOW!!! Where to begin? You are right about one thing, the emissions systems would not be there if the gov. did not force it. With that being said, emissions are controlled at cruise speeds witch is what the engine will be doing 90% of its life. At wide-open throttle is all about power. Honda is on your side. They don't want to screw with smog crap, all those extra systems kill profit. Honda doesn't want to produce a bike with no performance, it wouldn't sell. At heart the manufactures want performance.

Properly operating smog systems will not affect performance. Removing systems when you don’t know how they operate beyond looking at them absolutely will. For example; you removed your evap canister and all that went to it. Seems harmless, right? That little valve in the vacuum line is called a purge valve. When the ECU opens that valve it will lean out the fuel trim to compensate for the stored fuel vapors it is now burning. You have removed that source of fuel. The ECM will still compensate fuel trim. Now you are running too lean, equals less power. My point is there are hundreds of engineers at Honda that made sure this bike will “perform exactly how it is supposed to perform”. Who are you, who I’m I, or who the hell is Biglry's to determine otherwise.

[BarFury]

Redneck;

You're absolutely right, for the most part, and, if you live in a high-smog area like L.A. and fully comprehend the magnitude of the problem, you're conscience has to bother you at least a little bit when you start throwing away or otherwise invalidating your emission control systems. That being said, I want the damn thing to make more noise (uh, sorry, to "sound better") and the only way that's going to happen is to bore out the muffler or install after-market pipes, both of which are technically illegal and violate federal and many states laws. Its a good thing that the government/s are understaffed in this area of enforcement or we'd all (the modifiers, that is) be doing time down on the hard rock farm, making little ones outa' big ones. LOL

Now I gotta get back out to the garage and drill some more holes in my muffler. Let's see, where did I put that hole saw................

Cheers

[djdiscman]

Originally Posted by REDNECK-76

WOW!!! Where to begin? You are right about one thing, the emissions systems would not be there if the gov. did not force it. With that being said, emissions are controlled at cruise speeds witch is what the engine will be doing 90% of its life. At wide-open throttle is all about power. Honda is on your side. They don't want to screw with smog crap, all those extra systems kill profit. Honda doesn't want to produce a bike with no performance, it wouldn't sell. At heart the manufactures want performance.

Properly operating smog systems will not affect performance. Removing systems when you don’t know how they operate beyond looking at them absolutely will. For example; you removed your evap canister and all that went to it. Seems harmless, right? That little valve in the vacuum line is called a purge valve. When the ECU opens that valve it will lean out the fuel trim to compensate for the stored fuel vapors it is now burning. You have removed that source of fuel. The ECM will still compensate fuel trim. Now you are running too lean, equals less power. My point is there are hundreds of engineers at Honda that made sure this bike will “perform exactly how it is supposed to perform”. Who are you, who I’m I, or who the hell is Biglry's to determine otherwise.

Performance engines are designed without any consideration of evap canisters and pair valves. SMOG is completely an afterthought. The engineers at Honda did their best to work with the lame laws they are required to follow, but they certainly cannot avoid affecting performance in the process. How many MotoGP bikes run with EVAP canisters? The ECU has no way of determining how much fuel, if any, is actually coming from the EVAP canister, therefore it has no way of knowing what to do with the fuel mixture. I would prefer it if my bike did not randomly suck unknown amounts of vapor from a canister. I would prefer my bike work with the air and fuel it gets from the sources it was originally designed to.

Got any justification for the PAIR valves?

[dpfolie]

Got any justification for the PAIR valves?

If you leave your bike stock there is absolutely no reason to touch the PAIR system. If you change out your exhaust it should be the first thing you do. It will reduce popping and backfires on decel. Also if you install a PCV with AutoTune you have to remove it.