Desmog CA EVAP, PAIR Valves...

[REDNECK-76]

Originally Posted by djdiscman

Performance engines are designed without any consideration of evap canisters and pair valves. SMOG is completely an afterthought. The engineers at Honda did their best to work with the lame laws they are required to follow, but they certainly cannot avoid affecting performance in the process. How many MotoGP bikes run with EVAP canisters? The ECU has no way of determining how much fuel, if any, is actually coming from the EVAP canister, therefore it has no way of knowing what to do with the fuel mixture. I would prefer it if my bike did not randomly suck unknown amounts of vapor from a canister. I would prefer my bike work with the air and fuel it gets from the sources it was originally designed to.

Got any justification for the PAIR valves?

These are not performance engines. These engines are designed for reliability, durability and mass production. The ECU uses o2 sensors to monitor fuel trim and determine how much vapor is being burned and adjusts injector pulse width to compensate. If you think engineers cant do performance and economy at the same time you are nuts. For example lets compare a small block Chevy 327 or 5.3L which is pretty common everyone should be somewhat familiar with it. A modern stock chevy 1500 has 315 hp and 320 lb·ft while getting near 20 miles per gallon and you can run the engine in your garage and it will run the tank dry before you kill yourself. Sure back in the late 60’s thay could get the same power out of the 327 but that’s all. You were getting 7 miles per gallon and would be dead in 10 minutes. As far as the pulse air injection goes, all it dose is use the negative back pressure in you exhaust to suck filtered air to the exhaust and oxidize unburnt fuel. What ever O2 is left the converters use to reduce HC and CO emissions. The system works on negative pressure after the exhaust stroke and is limited to working mostly at idle, under cruise there is less negative pressure to operate. It’s ok, you picked up 50 horsepower at idle by taking the system off and you get to stare at the check engine light all the time to remind how much smarter you are then the engineer at honda.

[BarFury]

All;

Gar is correct guys; the Fury has no O2 sensors. I too wish that it did. It would make it so easy to connect an air/fuel ratio instrument and accurately and optimally dial-in your after-market fuel controller, without ever having to go to a dyno. Plus it would give you the real-time/real-world read out that a dyno can never accurately render.

Cheers

[djdiscman]

Gar, thank you for reeling this thread back towards reality. I agree with you that it would be nice to have some verification on all the claims made here.

I thought that Redneck and I were just having a friendly debate, but apparently he took offense to something I said... "It’s ok, you picked up 50 horsepower at idle by taking the system off and you get to stare at the check engine light all the time to remind how much smarter you are then the engineer at honda." I don't think I ever said I was smarter than the engineers. I was simply pointing out that the engineers have to follow certain CA laws. Just like the designers have to put all those reflectors on the bike because they have to follow certain laws. If you take off the reflectors, does that mean you think you are a better bike designer than them??

I come from the world of high performance sport bikes. My Fury is the first non-sport bike I have ever owned. In the sport bike world, it is not even a debate... everyone trashes the SMOG stuff. It is useless extra weight. Bikes sold outside CA don't have the EVAP canister to begin with.

My only verification is this:
1) I have deSMOGed every bike I have ever owned.
2) I have never had a check engine light.
3) I have never had a single backfire.
4) I have never had a bike run too lean or too rich.
5) I have raced 600s and left liter bikes in the dust.
6) Redneck thinks the Fury has O2 sensors???

I am not an expert. Please do not take anything I have said in this thread as expert advice. I did not start this thread as a campaign to convince people to deSMOG. I just wanted to document the process in case someone else wanted to deSMOG their Fury.

[BarFury]

Senor Gar;

"The aftermarket can grant your wish BF as noted in previous threads. If Honda did it I don't see why you would want a fuel controller .

Huh?? Please elaborate.

Cheers

[BarFury]

Gar;

"Kind Sir"is it; of my, we're being galante'.

This is the part I was referring to: "If Honda did it I don't see why you would want a fuel controller".

Cheers, and Happy Thanksgiving Day

[BarFury]

Gar;

"I was hinting that if Honda equiped the Fury with O2 sensors they would be connected to the ECU for closed loop fuel control and would compensate for typical exhaust and aircleaner modifications. The VTX1800 uses O2 sensors for each header in this way".

Ahhh, now I understand!

Cheers

[REDNECK-76]

Well I’m gonna need to go to the dentist to have my foot removed from my mouth. I assumed the fury had closed loop fuel control, but upon further research......wrong. You know what they say when you assume;
You make an ASS out of U and ME
In this case mainly me. Please understand my poiny of veiw. I have been in the smog industry since I was 16, and have been a licensed tech since 18. I can’t tell you how many vehicles I have seen completely screwed up by people trying to get more power. It is a constant frustration, mainly because I have to fix them. While I still think it is a waste of time to remove or tamper with the emissions equipment in the name of performance, I have to admit it won’t have near the complications with this basic injection system.