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Why replacing the headlight bulb with an LED, or HID is a bad idea.

14K views 117 replies 22 participants last post by  aces and eights 
#1 ·
I hope the explanation below helps! If the light source(H4) is replaced by something else(HID,LED,B-Xenon HID) out of the precise focal point of the parabola reflector will hardly work efficient.
The problem with LEDs is that they typically have multiple light sources and multiple reflectors. The highest performance comes from a single light source in the precise focus of the reflector. High beam H4 has a single filament at the exact focus of the parabolic reflector:
Low beam H4 uses the internal light shield, and the filament is forward of the reflector focus:
Once you understand HOW THEY WORK, you understand why H4 E-code reflectors (which have been steadily improved since the 1970's) outperform more efficient light sources like LEDs or HIDs. You can immediately see why anything other than an H4 bulb is a bad idea. See video below!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zRlklsD4mI
 
#2 ·
Interesting point. IDK where HID or B-Xenon HID focus but I have some LEDs for my Daytime Running Lights which definitely do not focus and for DRL that's a good thing since they are not for lighting up the road but the scattered light is quite bright and visible without bothering the eyes of oncoming drivers and make my car easy to be seen.

No focal point here ...

and no way to provide high and low beam
 
#4 ·
I had one of those multi LED lights, including hi and lo beam on the Fury. What a disaster. Light went all over the place. Indeed, would be great for daylight running lights. Not much else . . . . . . . . .
 
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#3 ·
Absolutely. Here is an excellent source on the plug and play HID fiascoes and he will even point you to the laws that in some counties make them illegal. A lot of the logic applies directly to LED as well.

Daniel Stern Lighting Consultancy and Supply

If you want more light in the stock housing, the only way is a true retrofit of a projector in. Or install a housing made for the light source. I have retrofit HID projectors in my truck, just haven't taken that one on for the bike yet.
 
#5 ·
#7 ·
With a 50,000 hour lifespan, I don't expect looking at it again. Perhaps a newly purchased one could be measured?
 
#9 ·
Yes. See LED headlight? thread,last post for, install particulars.
 
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#11 ·
My commute round-trip is one hour, six days a week, 49 weeks a year, equalling 294 days a year.
50,000 divided by 294 is 170 years.
 
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#12 · (Edited)
Too many people "unqualified" disturb their OEM headlights on motorcycles and cars thinking they are better illuminating their path or because they want to look cool with their white lights that they are creating an "unsafe' situation by blinding all oncoming vehicles. :m@d: The authorities in the US do nothing about it or they are not trained to do so. When riding at the slightest hint of headlights bothering me from oncoming vehicles I turn my high beam on and don't shut them off until they are well past me. I will also not ride in front of anyone in our group with the same problem, I rather be at the back.
 
#14 ·
Too many people "unqualified" disturb their OEM headlights on motorcycles and cars thinking they are better illuminating their path or because they want to look cool with their white lights that they are creating an "unsafe' situation by blinding all oncoming vehicles. :m@d: The authorities in the US do nothing about it or they are not trained to do so. When riding at the slightest hint of headlights bothering me from oncoming vehicles I turn my high beam on and don't shut them off until they are well past me. I will also not ride in front of anyone in our group with the same problem, I rather be at the back.
I do the same thing .and 90% of the time I like to ride in the back of the pack ,if its a small group but if its a big event I like to be as close to the front as possible,i don't like to be behind touring bikes , there notorious for there bags falling off, no mentioning any particular motorcycle brands .
 
#16 · (Edited)
No spare. I'm pretty sure it won't be necessary, but I could be wrong! I'm going to see risk a failure!
The suggested gold visor on my helmets, years ago, solves that clear/dark tinted visor dilemma for me. The blue visor works the same. Street lights on the freeways and major streets create just enough light for it not to be too dark. I just have to open it up to see on really dark side streets.
That said, the HID bulb, non DOT, bulb retrofit was blinding and now the LED retrofit, non DOT and OEM, is making my commute a blinding experience, morning and afternoon. It's really bad if they're blinding you in daytime!
They used to be $299.95 and now are down to $59.95, on the aftermarket. The OEM's will have them on their least expensive models very soon if not already.
 
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#18 ·
These guys seem to do it right - reflector and LED bulb as a kit. Using 2 for 1948 Buick

No, it's not done right. It's an LED in a reflector housing. You are going to get scattered light, no cutoff, and it's going to go right into drivers eyes. Unless the reflector is engineered for that bulb, then it's the same as the other crap out there. But it's not. There aren't even many vehicle manufacturers designing reflectors for their own LED bulbs.
 
#19 ·
Hi, welcome to the forum.

As a note, that seems to be a 6V LED; Furys have a 12V electrical system, so there might be an issue... Also, it's in a halogen fixture, so what @krashDH is saying is accurate.

That's how we learn... Again, welcome!
 
#20 ·
That is why I went with a +150% standard wattage 60/55W H4. Way more light and 15 minutes to install.

These are the ones I use. (But I only buy them when they are on sale for 30 or 40% off)


Automotive tire Audio equipment Camera accessory Electronic instrument Packaging and labeling
 
#25 ·
Just buy from a respectable place and product. They have all the specs on the website.

"It has an LED array that's designed to mimic the filament in halogen bulbs—creating a closely matched beam style."

I buy all my lighting from these guys.
 
#35 ·
Since this is heating up I'll chime in*. (the goal is to learn stuff from each other, right?)

First, I have experience in the matter. I built custom Slingshots (and other vehicles), but the Slingshots' lighting flat out sucked so have the most experience changing those around.

Second, I'm really sensitive to people changing out their bulbs and thinking they're brighter and help the driver see better (which in reality may or may not be the case under varying conditions), the reason being most often the changes blind drivers in the opposing lane. Here is one such writeup (I made multiple posts on the subject):

Third, I had a factory race truck built in Japan and shipped to the U.S. with the first ever factory LED headlights, and that sucked. I could be 1/4 mile away from a freeway sign and the reflection was so bright it blinded me and everyone else. If I was behind a car their interior was light like daylight and I could see everything in their car. It was crazy. Most people don't understand lighting physics and how the human eye works--and it shows. (Admittedly, there's a lot to it.)

---

Okay, with that said, it can be done. I've modified Slingshot lights in my shop and measured the beam cutoff and adjusted them properly. Often the puddle (the light right in front of the vehicle) is too bright and ruins the driver's long-distance perception, but with the right bulb in the right location it can be done. LEDs, while they look cool, tend to suck. The reflection is too bright off of reflective things and nonexistent off of things that absorb their wavelength, like wet grass and deer. Black Body Regulators are far superior.

Regarding the Fury, I have a HID in my headlight with the stock reflector and it works perfectly, including casting the phoenix (link from the 1st Fury's stock headlight). So again, it can be done properly and with good outcome, but care must be taken.

BUT, with that said, it's a pain in the @$$. Seriously. I usually just go buy a reflector that is specifically made for whatever bulb I want to use. I only mess around fitting stuff when the reflector won't fit the housing it needs to work in.

---

So, if you're going to do this, and I suggest you don't because it's a lot of time, money, learning, and effort to get right, find a super-flat area somewhere and with the stock bulb first adjust the stock headlight so it's not blinding oncoming traffic--actually get a friend to sit on your bike and go walk around at different distances and put your head at the height of a short person in a car and see what it's like (imagine you're 70 years old with nigh vision problems, because that's going to hit you if you get this wrong). You also have to watch the spill (the amount of light on the left and right). Go walk all over and figure it out--and do it every night for a week, because you really need to understand this. Also look at exactly what your headlight causes to light up and how.

Then, when you do change out your bulb, go repeat the process and make sure you're not going to blind that 70's granny, or anyone else, anywhere else, including side street people wanting to make a turn, because you don't want them turning into you. Keep doing that until you get it right. It takes me about 6 different bulbs to figure it out, depending, so expect this to be a bunch of work. If it's not a bunch of work you've not put in the effort to ensure you did the job right, you're probably a hazard to others, and you shouldn't be on the road. Seriously, do not endanger others, that's completely and totally wrong. In the big picture from someone else's point of view, it's a headlight, on one of the several vehicles you own, and certainly not worth risking someone else's life over.

J.W. Speaker is close to where I work and I also know someone who works there. They really strive for quality, and when I last looked they made great, reliable lights (except for that one that detected lean angle--they had to recall that one, though that was years back when it first came out). I looked at replacing the Fury light with one of theirs, but honestly I like the phoenix too much. I do know a bunch of Harley guys love them, and I also know some Harley guys who bought Chinese knock-offs which are probably 80% as good at 1/5 the price. If you want a light almost no other Fury owner has, get a J.W. Speaker.

Otherwise, SLK Customs has a light, I believe you can even get them on Amazon, and for $100 or so that's probably the best performance for the price. If you need a powerful high-beam, you may want to spend extra money on a J.W. Speaker, though your install may not be nearly as easy depending on what you get.

---

Super-long post, but the Fury headlight sits high and you need to know this stuff before you go messing with it so you don't get smucked by another driver, the law, or injure others.

--Hedge

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* Note this post is not targeted at any particular person/persons. Changing headlight bulbs usually becomes heated if it goes on for long enough, just like the bulbs.
 
#36 ·
The point is, this forum has a lot of good info about this already. So do other forums, dedicated to lighting. I am a person who does not like to do things twice. My time is valuable, I don't have the time to constantly give a physics class on why this is a bad thing.

But as am avid motorcycle guy, car guy, and anything with wheels, there are a already too many stupid people on the road doing stupid, dangerous stuff. So I don't take to kindly when people put me in an unsafe situation. This topic in particular, falls into that category. There's a right way, and a wrong way. So yes, I'll call people out if they are choosing to be an idiot on the road because of decisions they made without an ounce of research.

.... Hate to say it Hedge, your HID in a reflector housing falls into this category. You cannot aim out scattered light. I'd like to see a cutoff shot of your HID in a reflector housing because those are the worse offenders. I've known people who spend thousands trying to prove light enthusiasts wrong, buying hundreds of bulbs to fit to their HALOGEN designed reflectors. It just doesn't work. It's not just about the cutoff and scattered light either. It's the light intensity. It can't ALL be done correctly when you are using items that weren't designed to be used in conjunction with each other.
 
#44 ·
Well, you obviously don't care. I GURANTEE you it doesn't have a "perfect" pattern. I'll state again so you read this time...YOU CANNOT ADJUST OUT SCATTERED LIGHT. You need to see deer? Mount some driving lights and use them when you need them. Instead, you just drive around with the equivalent to your high beams on all the time.

But hey, continue to be an asshole to others and see where that gets you.
I'm not gonna waste any more time trying to get you to educate yourself. You're one of "those people" and you don't care that you. Good luck bud
 
#42 ·
This is what I'm gonna' replace my bike's headlight with. Ford Model T kerosene burning headlamp with an adjustable wick. Doubt that it puts out much light, but it'll sure look cool on the bike.




View attachment 246023 View attachment 246024
Yes and it will be friendly to other people's eyes as to make sure your not caring about your own safety to much. 👍🤔🤣
 
#49 · (Edited)
ADMIN THING: Hey guys, let's keep it civil. Topics become heated because we care, so let's stick to that and avoid personal attacks and namecalling.

REASONING
As it turns out, I'm a degreed Engineer and have studied lighting and how it works from the electrical starting point all the way through how humans and animals process light and what the result is, and I've a decade of real-world experience--though that does not make me an expert. Modifying lights isn't easy, but it can be done with good result.

Lighting systems are designed with particular parameters and goals, including total cost of production. There are compromises made by the designers, lighting systems are definitely not perfect. Some headlights use a replaceable halogen bulb inside a reflector housing, some are sealed units, some are HID with a comparatively expensive beam focusing lens on the front, etc. The reflector quality varies. The protective shield on the front of the light isn't perfect--perhaps it would be crystal if it was. Beam diffusion and light scattering is unavoidable, engineers simply keep it within reasonable limits, and the same thing applies throughout this discussion.

If an informed member modifies a light and changes some parameters around, well, that's what the Engineers do. If the member keeps the glare and other parameters within the legal and reasonable limits, that's what the Engineers do.

The big question is, "Is the end result 'better?'" Because of OEM manufacturing cost concerns it can be, but that generally takes a lot of work tempered by luck and experience. It's really not much different than changing out the handgrips--Honda's work well, however if someone is willing to spend far more than Honda does they can get better grips. It's similar with the neck angle and raking out the front end--that puts a lot of additional stress on the seals and system in general, but we do it--the question is do we choose to do a good job and do we realize the outcomes of the changes we make.

SUMMARY
I'm okay with a member disagreeing with me, and to a large extent they're correct: the average bulb-swapper doesn't put a lot of effort into the job and they're a hazard to themselves and others. However, this forum isn't populated with "the average" anyone. Stateline owners (along with others) come here because of the vast knowledge and ability of the members, which truly is remarkable. We're also generally friendly, welcoming, helpful, and form a really solid community, so let's keep that in mind and help others learn, understand, and have the ability to do a great job in whatever it is they're doing. On the ladder of life a hand up is far better than a boot in the face.
 
#50 ·
I did a lot of research into LEDs before I made my purchase. I also spent a good amount of time getting the adjustment just right. At the beginning I had to adjust a little bit as I had a couple people flash me. After adjustments though no one has had a problem. I suppose it really all comes down to doing some research and caring about the job your doing.
 
#54 ·
But you're not an engineer. And adjusting your headlight does nothing for how light is produced and reflected.

How do you know "no one has a problem"? Most people won't flash someone because they don't want to be rude even if they're blinded. I guarantee you people have a problem with it.

What kind of "research" did you do? Amazon doesn't count. Maybe go on dedicated lighting forums and some physics and engineering books dedicated to lighting. Then you'll realize why you can't just "make adjustments"
 
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