Bleed feed vs rebound air?.....lets discuss this - Honda Fury Forums: Honda Chopper Forum
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 12:01 PM Thread Starter
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Bleed feed vs rebound air?.....lets discuss this

Im thinking of switching my airride from having adjustable rebound to adjustable bleed feed for simplicity. I am now running dual valve setups and dual port air cylinder. I am considering simplicity going with one valve setup with a simple adjustable knob for the bleed feed.

I recently developed a leak in my manual valve that is allowing air to slowly bleed into my rebound. I believe it is the vibration that is causing it. I purchased electric solenoid valves that I know are reliable from previous use in car airride systems I have built.

So who is using a bleed feed setup and are you happy with it? Im gonna test my theory but I am just curious what you guys think.

The new valves are big so space has become a little bit of an issue. I attached pics of my potential bleed feed valve and my new valves.
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 02:17 PM
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Would the compressor fill the "lift" side and the "compression" side at the same time?

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WI_Hedgehog View Post
Would the compressor fill the "lift" side and the "compression" side at the same time?
Well since I am not 100% clear on your question Ill give you two answers.

Would it be .....capabable?

Yes. I have the upgraded compressor so it is capable of doing so.

Would it ....
No. I would simply air the bike up to the pressure I desire and the rebound would be controlled by the adjustable valve restricting the air flow speed. Kind of how a traditional shock works.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-19-2019, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NDM View Post
Well since I am not 100% clear on your question Ill give you two answers.

Would it be .....capabable?

Yes. I have the upgraded compressor so it is capable of doing so.

Would it ....
No. I would simply air the bike up to the pressure I desire and the rebound would be controlled by the adjustable valve restricting the air flow speed. Kind of how a traditional shock works.
What you currently have IS a bleed feed system...

The systems that run an adjustable muffler to slow/control the air coming in and going out of the lower port/chamber of the air cylinder is what "Platinum" refers to as a simple system/kit.

Beyond that I have no real input as I have never ran/rode a simple kit. I was always well please with my bleed feed system I built as it offered infinite adjustability on the fly.

I'm sure others will chime in. I know STG runs a simple kit, or at least he did before he stopped coming around here.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-20-2019, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kbuskill View Post

What you currently have IS a bleed feed system...

The systems that run an adjustable muffler to slow/control the air coming in and going out of the lower port/chamber of the air cylinder is what "Platinum" refers to as a simple system/kit.

Beyond that I have no real input as I have never ran/rode a simple kit. I was always well please with my bleed feed system I built as it offered infinite adjustability on the fly.

I'm sure others will chime in. I know STG runs a simple kit, or at least he did before he stopped coming around here.
Well...ain't I just a doofus. I thought the simple kit was a single port cylinder with
single fill/exhaust and a bleed feed was dual port single fill/exhaust with a restrictor in the rebound port.
I referred to mine/yours as a dual port dual fill/exhaust.

Well either way, Im still curious as to how the dual port dual fill/exhaust will compare to dual port single fill/exhaust with a restrictor in the rebound side.

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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 01:41 PM
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Each system would use a different type of cylinder. If a dual-fill was simply plugged on the rebound side it would work the same as if there was no fill added to that side, which is to say the air would compress "a lot" over bumps and act as if there was almost no rebound damping, almost the same as leaving the port open. To get damping the air spring on the rebound side needs to have pressure in it so the air is already compressed and "less compressable, " so it fights the bump on compression.

Because downward pressure is being added to the rebound side of the cylinder, the "lift" side has to have more air to maintain the same amount of lift, and this additional pressure working against the pressure on the other side of the cylinders piston is what creates rebound damping.

What really happens then is the "lift" is generated by the air going into the first chamber, "compression damping" is generated by air going into the second chamber, and "rebound damping" is created by adding "more air" to the first chamber.
1st chamber: 0 PSI - > 100 PSI
2nd chamber: 0 PSI - > 50 PSI
1st chamber: 50 PSI from second chamber generates 150 PSI in first chamber, need to add another 25 PSI for rebound damping, so 150 PSI - > 175 PSI

In practice one adds all the air to the first chamber (lifting it too high) , then brings it back down by adding air to the second chamber, which is far easier on the compressor.
1st chamber: 0 PSI - > 125 PSI
2nd chamber: 0 PSI - > 50 PSI
1st chamber: now at 175 PSI

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-21-2019, 02:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WI_Hedgehog View Post
Each system would use a different type of cylinder. If a dual-fill was simply plugged on the rebound side it would work the same as if there was no fill added to that side, which is to say the air would compress "a lot" over bumps and act as if there was almost no rebound damping, almost the same as leaving the port open. To get damping the air spring on the rebound side needs to have pressure in it so the air is already compressed and "less compressable, " so it fights the bump on compression.

Because downward pressure is being added to the rebound side of the cylinder, the "lift" side has to have more air to maintain the same amount of lift, and this additional pressure working against the pressure on the other side of the cylinders piston is what creates rebound damping.

What really happens then is the "lift" is generated by the air going into the first chamber, "compression damping" is generated by air going into the second chamber, and "rebound damping" is created by adding "more air" to the first chamber.
1st chamber: 0 PSI - > 100 PSI
2nd chamber: 0 PSI - > 50 PSI
1st chamber: 50 PSI from second chamber generates 150 PSI in first chamber, need to add another 25 PSI for rebound damping, so 150 PSI - > 175 PSI

In practice one adds all the air to the first chamber (lifting it too high) , then brings it back down by adding air to the second chamber, which is far easier on the compressor.
1st chamber: 0 PSI - > 125 PSI
2nd chamber: 0 PSI - > 50 PSI
1st chamber: now at 175 PSI
Yeah,

In my current setup, while on the stand, I pump up to about 125 psi then add air to the rebound to where I see about 150 on the up and 35-50 on the rebound side.

Im just wondering how it would work if I just added a restrictor the rebound port like the tricky air setup in the pictures.

Im good with the performance the setup as it is now but Im wondering if the tricky air setup is almost as good. If it is still smooth, I might just drop the additional two valves to simplify the system.

Im experimenting to see what works.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-22-2019, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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Figured out my issue.... internal pressure leak on the cylinder.

I was going go test my bike with the restrictor. I disconnected my rebound side, installed the restrictor and aired up. I immediately heard air escaping through the rebound side constantly.

Must have damaged the seal inside.

Ill pick up another cylinder tomorrow.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 07:47 AM
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I could swear someone mentioned such a thing....
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 11:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WI_Hedgehog View Post



I could swear someone mentioned such a thing....
Your right but my memory is short.
picking up the cushioned version of the same cylinder right now.

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