[Nuts351]

A quick dumba$$ question, pardon my ignorance......

I would like to fit an aftermarket air intake, I only want it for looks not really interested in power gains.

I know it is recommended that a fuel controller is needed, my question is would I need it as I have the O2 sensors fitted (AU version). Would the sensors be good enough to pick up the change and correct the mix?? As I have stated, I'm not doing it for power gain just basically cosmetically. As long as the bike runs right I'm quite happy to do that..

Thanks for hearing me out.

Cheers Don

 

[X_KIOWA_X]

I'm no expert so this is just me thinking, but the O2 sensors would just adjust for the exhaust since that's where they are attached and you would need a FC to adjust for the air intake since there is no adjusting for that on the bike so you would need a FC to adjust for the extra air that it's pulling in. I'm sure someone that's smarter than me with all this will chime in soon as it's almost morning in the States.

 

[Oni]

I myself have been curious as to how I could mod my intake. I'm also interested in defeating the governor which currently has my bike cutting out at exactly 100mph. How can that be when my previous bike, a 2004 VTX1300C was capable of well over 120 with the exact same motor!?!

I have Vance & Hines Big Shots on the bike but have been waiting to find my new air intake before doing the power commander as well.

 

[X_KIOWA_X]

This has been discussed so try to search and see what was said about it cutting out at 100mph, I don't believe there is a fix for it, I believe that it's called a rev limiter and I believe it's controlled by the computer <ECU?>, if you notice it will only go so fast in each gear before cutting out also.

 

[mrbyber]

I installed the Barons big air kit. Barons said no matter what bike it is installed on there is no need for a fuel controller. Not saying they are right but I also asked the Honda service guy (doing it for 17 years) and he also said no. It is recommended for exhaust.
I would think this would pertain to all air intakes. Some may argue about this but besides looks there is not too much difference in the high performance air intakes. So it shouldn't matter too much.

 

[460brevill]

dosent the rev limiter short a cylinder out at a prefixed rpm,thats how it works on my mustang.

 

[mrbyber]

Great so far,
I got the exhaust (Cobra, Too quiet) put on at the same time and could feel the difference in power all the way threw each gear.
When I was looking for the right intake for me I had a lot of people claim there is really not much difference in them if they are high performance. I suppose it made sense. I did ask for charts from cobra for there new power Flo and barons but both said they did not have any. Not believing that one. I'll probably change it in a year or two. Why should we limit ourselves to only one, right?

 

[Nuts351]

The O2 sensors on the non US Fury adjust fuel mixture based on oxygen content in the exhaust gases regardless of where the mods are made (intake or exhaust). That said, popular opinion amongst tuners says the ECM does not have the range to compensate for the typical increase in air flow afforded by most aftermarket air cleaners. To my knowledge Don, no one has actually put this theory to the test. If it were me with an O2 controlled Fury I would try it and see. If the result was an uncorrected lean condition I would temporarily return to the stock air cleaner while awaiting the arrival of my downstream fuel controller .

Note: With the second fuel controller in line 'they' say you will need to eliminate the O2 sensors with a fixed value resistor. That may well be the case but I'm not so sure. So again, I would try it as is, then only if needed, do the additional mod.

Thanks Gar. i might just do that and see how it goes

 

[macxpert]

Thanks Gar. i might just do that and see how it goes

I've been thinking about a spike air cleaner but with the 02 sensors and the other differences in our AU versions I put it at the bottom of the list.

I am real interested in what you find just changing the air cleaner. If it works well without an additional controller then I'll be putting a spike air cleaner on real soon.

 

[460brevill]

It's a fuel cut to both cylinders on the Fury. Most FI vehicles will use fuel cut rather than ignition, otherwise raw fuel is going into the engine and also out into the atmosphere doing damage in both palces . Same thing with the speed limiter.

thanks gar.thats good to know.on my mustang its done through the tac.shuts down the fire to the coil as it is carbed.what are they going to come up with next?

 

[BluFury]

thanks gar.thats good to know.on my mustang its done through the tac.shuts down the fire to the coil as it is carbed.what are they going to come up with next?

Witch Mustang you got 460brevill

 

[Fury_Guy]

Hi all, I'm an Aussie downunder with a few of the mods done that some other Ozzies sound like they want. A few points on my experience so far.

1. Fitted a spike air intake, made no difference to anything, except for looks. No backfiring, no performance gain, this is a stock engine doubt the minimal difference in air intakes in this engine state would ever be noticable or measurable. I would highly recommend a spike, its a huge attention getter, just try and get one that has a rounded nose (Bullet by D&M) the police here are cracking down on sharp objects facing forward. I cut mine off and rounded it similar to the lollypop blinkers and then had it rechromed.

2. Fitted the Cobra Swept speedsters, do not buy them in Australia, import them from Xchoppers, nearly half the price.
Anyway, had the usual O2 bung sensor reverse connector problems and ended up making my own with the 330ohm resistors. No dash alarms etc, must have got it right.
Also fitted the FI2000R with these pipes
Cannot stop the popping and back firing when you back off the throttle, unless you set pot 1 to about 7 or 8 and then it blows black smoke at idle, a bit rich I think.
From what I am able to find out, Cobra are useless and will tell you nothing, the 1st pot does not adjust the fuel at idle, it starts working somewhere above idle, hence it is used to adjust the cruising mixture and does nothing for when the throttle is backed off. I have compromised and have it set at 5, the pipes are black so I think it is still to rich at normal cruising speeds. Going to disable the FI2000R and see what its like without it, will report on that in about a week.

If any Aussies have the Cobra pipes on and running without problems I would love to hear from you.

Also does the American service manual cover the Aussie models, ie. ABS, Hondas combined rear/front braking, O2 sensor wiring etc ????

 

[macxpert]

I always had my doubts about aftermarket pipes on the AU/EU bikes.
D and D make a slip-on that looks good and according to them does not need a fuel controller.

Sounds like a spike air cleaner and the slip-on pipes are the go. Here is a link to the D and D on a fury. D&D Exhaust | Honda | 2009~2010 - Honda Fury - 558-12 -Slip-ons - Chrome

Cheers

 

[Fury_Guy]

Hey MACXPERT, those slip ons look pretty good for what they are, with the right pricing they could save a lot of headaches.

A further note on the Cobra pipes with O2 sensors removed; when the bike is cold it runs perfectly, no popping and farting at all untill it warms up. So from this I deduce that the ECU has enough range in its program to control the fuel but its just a matter of getting it to do it. I run the FI2000R now at 2,2,2.

A note on the O2 sensor control - When the bike is cold the sensors are not used, this is called "Open Loop" mode. The program uses a map that is obviously a bit richer at idle and lower revs under these conditions.

When the engine heats up the ECU will switch to "Closed Loop" mode and it then uses the O2 sensors to trim the fuel/air ratio.

You may have heard of cars that are stuck in Open Loop mode, the temperature sensor has generally failed and it causes excessive use of fuel as the "choke" is permanently on as the ECU thinks it is still cold.

The O2 sensors are only used to trim the fuel/air mixture at IDLE and when CRUISING at a constant speed on the FURY.

FI2000R is a OPEN LOOP device (No O2 sensors), Cobra do make CLOSED LOOP controllers but not for the FURY (yet?). They have CL at the end of their part number. Not sure what would happen if you ran the FI2000R with the O2 sensors in, I guess the two ECUs might have a bit of a fight on their hands to who has control of the injection pulses.

To fool the ECU we have all soldered in the 330ohm resistors. The O2 sensors feed back a voltage (very general term used here) to the ECU, the ECU is continuously adjusting the mixture either richer or leaner depending on the value of this voltage, it never ever stops adjusting the mixture.

What I would like to know if there are any PGFM/O2 sensor experts out there is;

With the 330ohm resistor in place does it make the ECU think the mixture is RICH or LEAN? And, if I vary this resistance can I swing it one way or the other.

The Power Commander seems to be a good choice but I am 300 miles from the nearest dyno and it would cost well over a $1000 to have this done. But, does the Power Commander map the fuel from IDLE or above ?

Sorry for the long reply but hope somebody out there gets a bit of help from it all.

 

[Fury_Guy]

STOP PRESS ....

After months of reading and adjusting the problem has been fixed 100%, no more popping

The fury legend "MENTAL" emailed me and suggested I remove the Pair Valve. What the f...k is a Pair Valve? After some quick searching of the forums all was clear, at last.

I shoved a crowbar up the valve intake pipe and went for a ride, not a single POP SPLUTTER or FLUTTER. Music to my ears.

Now I can forget all about fuel injection, O2 sensors and fuel controllers and just ride ride ride .....

Thanks everyone and especially to MENTAL for solving the problem. Have already emailed for the block off plates and can't wait to remove the bloody thing forever.

THANKS

 

[macxpert]

Do we have a "how to" on blocking off the pair valve on here?
If not Fury_Guy could you take some photos as you do it and post them up in our DIY section?

 

[mental]

Go to: MY VTX 1300, tutorial, also other VTX boards have years of info. Thanks, I am glad I could guide Fury Guy thru this and problem solved.

 

[X_KIOWA_X]

it was brought up to me that I didn't have to do the whole pair valve blocking, just to plug the hose behind the intake <pair valve hose?> with a 9/16 bearing ball to block that hose and that it would work also, that's what I planned on doing when I changed out my intakes.

 

[Fury_Guy]

Hi,

The bike is in pieces at the moment, the PAIR valve is out and the foot pegs are off building the forward controls.

I have ordered the stainless steel Block Off Plates from www.vtx-parts.com with dimples so I don't have to worry about the reed valve. $23 shipped to Australia, a real bargain.

In the meantime I have tapped the air inlet on the reed valve housing, 7/16 UNF is perfect, and screwed in two short bolts to seal it.

One point to mention for everyone that is blocking the air intake pipe off at the back of the air cleaner. I did this as it is a quick and dirty way to see how it works. It worked fine and stopped the popping & backfiring 100% but at idle, after a few seconds, the cobra pipes (baffles in) took on a very hollow note, I put this down to the air chamber in the solenoid and all the plumbing reverberating when the solenoid was opened up at idle. I hope this ceases with the plumbing fully removed, will know on Sunday when I fire it up.

Foo tpegs are looking great, will post some photos for all to see the basic design on Sunday/Monday.

 

[RedspawnSilver]

Hi,

The bike is in pieces at the moment, the PAIR valve is out and the foot pegs are off building the forward controls.

I have ordered the stainless steel Block Off Plates from www.vtx-parts.com with dimples so I don't have to worry about the reed valve. $23 shipped to Australia, a real bargain.

In the meantime I have tapped the air inlet on the reed valve housing, 7/16 UNF is perfect, and screwed in two short bolts to seal it.

One point to mention for everyone that is blocking the air intake pipe off at the back of the air cleaner. I did this as it is a quick and dirty way to see how it works. It worked fine and stopped the popping & backfiring 100% but at idle, after a few seconds, the cobra pipes (baffles in) took on a very hollow note, I put this down to the air chamber in the solenoid and all the plumbing reverberating when the solenoid was opened up at idle. I hope this ceases with the plumbing fully removed, will know on Sunday when I fire it up.

Foo tpegs are looking great, will post some photos for all to see the basic design on Sunday/Monday.

Since the bike is apart mate, do a DIY and show him in pictures what you are talking about... Pictures help sometimes more than words... Good to see you got the pair valves, looking to get those myself. Showing them on a Fury will help, plus installation pics are great!