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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Thought I'd post a pre-installed photo of new viper-2's *with* welded bung for the Autotune AT-200 for Power Commander 5. An advantage of the 2-into-1 scavenger type exhaust is enabling sensor data from both pipes without a second bung by collecting after both pipes scavenger dump .. *I think* - Fuggin' did a fabulous job on the over-all welding and polishing; the pics aren't good but the pipes are gorgeous:
 

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What a great idea! Sorry too late for me but you will love the sound of those pipes! :cool:
 

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So by having a bung, I guess you can add an O2 sensor which I'm guessing the power commander can adjust for on the fly since its getting constant info. Sweet... I was wondering why an FI bike didnt have an O2 sensor for the computer. Only thing is I think the bike looks better with two pipes. Let us know how it all works out.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So by having a bung, I guess you can add an O2 sensor which I'm guessing the power commander can adjust for on the fly since its getting constant info. Sweet... I was wondering why an FI bike didnt have an O2 sensor for the computer. Only thing is I think the bike looks better with two pipes. Let us know how it all works out.
Yeah, I'll definitely post when I get a chance to ride; be a couple/few weeks yet though. The european models come standard with the bung/O2 sensors, or just the bung, can't remember which for sure; dunno why ours don't.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Looks like they did a good job. If it wasn't a two-into-one setup, which pipe would they weld the bung onto?
With one bung on a two-pipe setup it would be the front pipe; somewhere's about 6-7 inches from the exhaust port I think; but partly it would depend on where you can put it and run the wiring up out of sight and also where that big ass sensor won't be sticking out all obvious. That sensor's about 5 inches long, btw.

There's a lotta debate about whether you NEED two sensors on a two-pipe setup; personally I don't think you do on a watercooled v-twin, and neither does dynojet, according to statements they've made in the past. that said, there's apparently enough demand anyway that they're coming out with the AT-300; gives the 2nd bung/sensor.
 

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With two pipes I would say get to sensors for most accurate info. The computer should be able to adjust each cylender by itself.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Ok, since posting the pics yesterday - and as stated I liked the quality of the work Fuggin' put into the pipes themselves and the drillin'/welding of the bung, but I had a serious concern: AT200 instructions specify an upward angle from the ground for the sensor; they go so far as to include a diagram showing the sensor coming out point to around 10 o'clock, so I assume it's important to do that. Don't have the instructions here at home to quote, but they were essentially the same as instructions I've seen for a variety of A/F sensors placement by several companies:

Installation angle should be inclined at least 10° towards horizontal (electrical connection upwards, see diagram) which prevents the collection of liquids between sensor housing and sensor element during the cold start phase.
[See diagram bottom of post]

I fire off emails to Fuggin' and Dynojet expressing my concerns; from the pics at beginning of thread you can see the bung looks to me like it'll put that sensor out parallel with the ground or even pointing a teeny bit downwards.
Still waiting to hear from Fuggin', but Dynojet gets back to me with this:

The only criticism I would have on that bung location is that it's closer to the exit of the pipe than the head.

The only reason we recommend pointing the sensor downward (my bolding for emphasis) is so that if condensation builds in the pipe and a water droplet were to run down the pipe, we would not want that droplet to touch the sensor. That is all we are trying to avoid. If this were to happen the sensor would go out like a light bulb.

My complaint would be that you are going to get to much outside, fresh air to the sensor on that particular bung location. You may need to disable auto tune in lower RPM's if this is the case. At the lower RPM's your sensor may be reading leaner than actual AFR because of reversion. If this is the case you will see the auto-tune add excessive fuel and the bike would run very rich at low RPM's.

You could counter this by either disabling auto-tune at the low RPM's or move the bung closer to one of the heads. Ideally it would be 6" from the head.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Regards,
WHAT. THE. HELL. ??????? Instructions say mount the sensor pointing up. This tells me why they recommend pointing it down. :confused: But, no problem, all I have to do is disable the sensor at low rpm. Y'know, put in one of them PMS switches or whatever the fuck they are. Or move the bung :(

Y'know what? Screw all this !!!. AT200 goes back in the box. Plug goes in the Bung. Pipes turn blue? Sell the red bike. Buy a blue bike. Tell everyone it's that cool new offset colormatching and in six months everyone'll be trying to figure out how I got that perfect color-thing going.

Goddamn lol :eek:
 

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Ok, since posting the pics yesterday - and as stated I liked the quality of the work Fuggin' put into the pipes themselves and the drillin'/welding of the bung, but I had a serious concern: AT200 instructions specify an upward angle from the ground for the sensor; they go so far as to include a diagram showing the sensor coming out point to around 10 o'clock, so I assume it's important to do that. Don't have the instructions here at home to quote, but they were essentially the same as instructions I've seen for a variety of A/F sensors placement by several companies:

[See diagram bottom of post]

I fire off emails to Fuggin' and Dynojet expressing my concerns; from the pics at beginning of thread you can see the bung looks to me like it'll put that sensor out parallel with the ground or even pointing a teeny bit downwards.
Still waiting to hear from Fuggin', but Dynojet gets back to me with this:



WHAT. THE. HELL. ??????? Instructions say mount the sensor pointing up. This tells me why they recommend pointing it down. :confused: But, no problem, all I have to do is disable the sensor at low rpm. Y'know, put in one of them PMS switches or whatever the fuck they are. Or move the bung :(

Y'know what? Screw all this !!!. AT200 goes back in the box. Plug goes in the Bung. Pipes turn blue? Sell the red bike. Buy a blue bike. Tell everyone it's that cool new offset colormatching and in six months everyone'll be trying to figure out how I got that perfect color-thing going.

Goddamn lol :eek:
If you use the tip of the plug to the horison of the ground as the vertecies its an upward angle with the element down slightly. when you read math its a PITA and makes no sense. I had to take 2 looks at it to figure it out. Dynojet is looking at o2 with a flow so the end of o2 is what they are pointing with. either one though the tip of o2 goes slightly down
 

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Discussion Starter #12
If you use the tip of the plug to the horison of the ground as the vertecies its an upward angle with the element down slightly. when you read math its a PITA and makes no sense. I had to take 2 looks at it to figure it out. Dynojet is looking at o2 with a flow so the end of o2 is what they are pointing with. either one though the tip of o2 goes slightly down
Oh yeah, yer right lol ... doh ... musta read it 10 times and didn't see that ... seems kinda obvious now that you point it out ... (sighs) ... gettin' kinda burned out on the whole air/fuel mix adventure I guess :rolleyes:

what with DJ's most recent input though about the *new* dangers of too close to end of pipes/not close enough to exhaust ports and the potential hazards of drops of water and the notes of songbirds or whatever the heck else could go wrong, still thinkin' the potential benefits of the AT200 are starting to look outweighed by the potential downside. Think I'm gonna button it up and just ride for the summer; at least I should see what base performance with PC5/proper dyno map/S&S/Fuggin' pipes should be. Then maybe think about adding the AT later in the summer if I want.
 

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WHAT. THE. HELL. ??????? Instructions say mount the sensor pointing up. This tells me why they recommend pointing it down. :confused: But, no problem, all I have to do is disable the sensor at low rpm. Y'know, put in one of them PMS switches or whatever the fuck they are. Or move the bung :(

Condensation.. it it pointed up it would collect moisture and decrease the service life of the sensor.
 

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European models come fitted with two O2 sensors in the pipes as standard. My problem is finding after market pipes with the bungs on them. I've got the U.K. model, metallic blue.

I'd quite like the Viper pipes but would need two bungs welded, one in each of the down pipes. The slash cut Vipers.
 
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