Honda Fury Forums: banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Every Mongols MC Member Found Guilty in Patch Seizure RICO Case


For the first time in history, in its latest bid to seize the Mongols Motorcycle Club’s logos and collective membership marks, the federal government has successfully indicted the Mongols Nation as an entity comprised of every single full-patched member of a motorcycle club, on felony RICO racketeering and conspiracy charges regardless of personal guilt.

So, what happens next? What does this verdict mean for the Mongols MC, other motorcycle clubs in America, and the First Amendment to the US Constitution? There are definitely more questions than answers. But one thing is certain. The fight to Save The Patch is far from over. Now, more than ever, motorcycle clubs have a critical issue to mobilize around in order to preserve and insure the survival of a lifestyle and a culture.



Mongols Nation found guilty

On December 13th, 2018, the Mongols Nation, defined as all full-patched members of the Mongols Motorcycle Club, was found guilty by a federal district court jury in Southern California under the federal RICO Act of racketeering and conspiring to engage in racketeering, for conducting and participating in the criminal enterprise called the Mongols Gang. The Mongols Gang is defined by the federal government as all patched members, prospects, and associates of the club. The federal government argued that, since 2002, the Mongols Gang has committed crimes ranging from drug dealing to murder at the direction and benefit of the Mongols Nation.



No one goes to jail?

Despite a verdict of guilt, no one will be incarcerated as a result. The crimes cited are historical and, in many cases, resolved. The goal here is different. The government maintains that the club’s insignia and patches are an element of the criminal enterprise and a tool of intimidation. If the government gets its way during the sentencing phase, prosecutors argue they will literally be able to take the colors off a Mongol’s back.

The implications for the motorcycle club community at large are obvious. The federal government’s forfeiture strategy could ultimately be applied to other clubs in an attempt to crush the symbolism that defines association in motorcycle clubs. And completely independent of forfeiture, the idea that an entire motorcycle club can be defined as a criminal enterprise regardless of personal guilt also lays the foundation for other severe sentencing options such as excessive fines and asset forfeiture.



Personal guilt and the 1st Amendment

Beyond immediate impacts to the Mongols MC, the US Attorney’s theory of prosecution compromises important judicial principles such as the doctrine of personal guilt, guilt by association, and the fundamental concepts of First Amendment Association and Expression. Indeed, the prosecution’s theory obliterates long-standing constitutional principles.

To permit the government to impose restrictions on any person “who wears the insignia of [the Mongols], without regard to or knowledge of that individual’s specific intent to engage in the alleged violent activities committed by other members, is antithetical to the basic principles enshrined in the First Amendment and repugnant to the fundamental doctrine of personal guilt that is a hallmark of American jurisprudence.” 1



Unanswered Questions

Independent of collective membership mark issues, and even though no one is going to jail as a result this verdict, what are the potential implications of the Mongols Nation- meaning every member of the Mongols MC- being found guilty of two felony RICO counts? No individual person is specifically named in the indictment. But every member they want to seize property from must be an indicted individual in order to avoid the same judgement that gave the Mongols back their property initially.

Does this mean that every member of the club now has a felony record? Does this mean that members can be denied rights like voting and legal possession of a firearm? Does this mean that the Mongols MC has no 1st Amendment right to associate with one another because all patched members, the Mongols Nation, have been found to all be engaged in a criminal enterprise?

These questions, at least to the MPP, remain unanswered. So much focus has, understandably, been placed on the patch forfeiture issue that many of these questions haven’t yet been considered by those discussing and writing about this case.

The potential impacts are vast. Australia has no 1st Amendment so banning motorcycle club associations does not face the same obstacles as in America. The prosecution’s strategy in this case is, the MPP believes, the government’s most recent blueprint for circumventing the 1st Amendment and crushing motorcycle clubs in America.



What happens now?

The US v. Mongols Nation Trial, despite a guilty verdict, is still a long way from being over. After the first of the year, the jury will reconvene, enter the sentencing phase, and decide whether they agree with the government’s forfeiture requests. And even if the jury grants forfeiture, Judge Carter must then adjudicate the extensive legal and constitutional objections to forfeiture.

Fortunately, even if unsuccessful in every phase of this federal district court trial, the Mongols MC can appeal the decision as they previously did when they lost their patch in district court before overturned on appeal. Unfortunately, there is no guarantee what will happen in the interim if the Mongols marks are seized. If history repeats itself, the Mongols MC will be targeted, harassed, and have property and colors seized by authorities.

Make no mistake. This is NOT just about the Mongols MC. In a very real way, the motorcycle club lifestyle is under heavy attack and survival is not assured. This verdict demonstrates that reality. So, the community must not only continue to fight the good fight- the community must win.



Citations

1 see Coles v. Carlini 162 F.Supp.3d 380 (2015)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,027 Posts
Very interesting article indeed.

"Australia has no 1st Amendment so banning motorcycle club associations does not face the same obstacles as in America." This is true, however the governments both state and federal have not had a lot of success with the "declare the outlaw clubs to be criminal organisations and as such they can't associate with each other". All that happened is that a few clubhouses shut down and now the members don't wear their colours in public. Of course the police hate the new laws because now they can't easily tell who is who...........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Feds Demand Forfeiture of Mongols’ Biker Trademarks
WI_Hedgehog said:
Here's the problem as I see it: Crimes aren't committed because of a patch--the focus is completely wrong. Pencils don't make spelling mistakes, spoons don't make people fat, guns don't kill people, and patches don't commit organized crime.
January 9, 2019 DON DEBENEDICTIS
SANTA ANA, Calif. (CN) — The Mongol Nation Motorcycle Club must be stripped of the trademarked insignia that members wear on their backs, as fitting punishment for “a parade of horrors” the biker committed for decades, a federal prosecutor told a jury Tuesday.

Mongols “roamed the world looking for people to victimize” while “empowered by these symbols they wear like armor,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Steven R. Welk argued to an Orange County jury.

The jury in December found that the Mongol Nation club had been involved in murders, attempted murders and drug sales and convicted it of racketeering and conspiracy.

Now, in what Welk described as a very unusual process, jurors must decide whether the federal government can take the club’s trademarks in its logo design, or “patch,” through criminal forfeiture, to prevent members from wearing or using the design.

“It’s the only way to stop the endless cycle of crime that organizations like this perpetuate,” Welk said.

But Joseph A. Yanny, the Mongol Nation’s defense attorney, said “there is no reason to impose the death penalty on this club” for crimes committed by individuals, many of whom are already in prison.

“They’re trying to take away the one thing by which these men identify each other,” Yanny said.

U.S. District Judge David O. Carter has said the case is one of first impression and could reach the U.S. Supreme Court, due to the tension between forfeiture and trademark issues. Further, he said, the prosecutors may appeal from a forfeiture judgment that goes against them, unlike in most criminal cases.

As he did in the first portion of the trial, Yanny described the Mongols as a club founded in the late 1960s by Vietnam war veterans, primarily Latino, who liked to ride motorcycles together.

“Have individual men made mistakes” over the years? he asked. Yes, he said.

“Have they [the club] cleaned up their act? Yes, they have.”

At issue in this second phase are the Mongol Nation’s trademarks in the design of the patch that members wear on the back of their vests. It shows a cartoon Genghis Khan-type figure brandishing a sword and riding a motorcycle under a curved banner bearing the word “Mongols.”

Welk and Yanny stipulated to the jury Tuesday that the trademarks have been in “continuous use” by the club since 1969.

The prosecution’s one witness, retired ATF agent Darrin Kozlowski, testified that the trademarked symbols also appear on mugs, T-shirts, rings, mouse pads, cigarette lighters, caps, bandannas, stickers, trash cans and motorcycle parts. He said he bought some of those items himself during the three years he spent undercover in the Mongols for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Kozlowski said that only the club’s national leadership team, known as the Mother Chapter, can grant “full-patch” membership to a man and authorize him to wear the complete, three-part patch.

Under the Mongol Nation’s constitution, the club retains ownership of the patch, and members must return their patches if they leave, Kozlowski said.

The defense also presented just one witness, intellectual property attorney Michael A. Dinardo, who happens to be Yanny’s cousin.

Dinardo explained the differences between ordinary trademarks or service marks, which must be used in commerce, and “collective membership marks,” such as the Mongol patch. He said ownership rights to any sort of trademark arise from its being in continuous use by the mark’s owner, not from registration with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

Welk and Yanny stipulated to the jury Tuesday that the trademarks have been in “continuous use” by the club since 1969.

The prosecution’s one witness, retired ATF agent Darrin Kozlowski, testified that the trademarked symbols also appear on mugs, T-shirts, rings, mouse pads, cigarette lighters, caps, bandannas, stickers, trash cans and motorcycle parts. He said he bought some of those items himself during the three years he spent undercover in the Mongols for the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Kozlowski said that only the club’s national leadership team, known as the Mother Chapter, can grant “full-patch” membership to a man and authorize him to wear the complete, three-part patch.

Under the Mongol Nation’s constitution, the club retains ownership of the patch, and members must return their patches if they leave, Kozlowski said.

The defense also presented just one witness, intellectual property attorney Michael A. Dinardo, who happens to be Yanny’s cousin.

Dinardo explained the differences between ordinary trademarks or service marks, which must be used in commerce, and “collective membership marks,” such as the Mongol patch. He said ownership rights to any sort of trademark arise from its being in continuous use by the mark’s owner, not from registration with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office.

“Nobody was killed or beaten with a coffee cup,” he added later.

Yanny said that none of the guns seized in the 2008 raids were used in any of the specific crimes.

But Welk said the prosecution is not required to tie property it wants to forfeit to any particular crime or racketeering act.

The jury was to begin deliberations Wednesday.

If it does find in favor of forfeiture, Carter has suggested he will have to decide whether forfeiting the trademarks would violate Mongol members’ speech or other constitutional rights.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,027 Posts
Very interested to see where this goes.

A few years ago the Queensland government brought in some new laws that ended up with ordinary motorcyclists being stopped and searched because they were riding in a group of three or more. Ordinary motorcyclists get treated as outlaws because the Queensland government made it illegal for club members to wear their colours. I can see CA going the same way.....

In Oz a bikie is a 1%er.


Queensland Police will scrutinise any outlaw motorcyle riders travelling in threes under new laws

Robyn Ironside, Andrew Clennell, CourierMail
October 8, 2013 12:10pm

ATTORNEY-General Jarrod Bleijie appeals for understanding as he admits law abiding motorbike riders will be affected by new laws banning outlaw bikies from riding in groups.

Police will target groups of three or more outlaw motorcyclists riding together under new anti-bikie laws going to State Cabinet today.

Cabinet will also examine laws allowing police to stop, search and photograph anyone in bikie club colours.

Attorney General Jarrod Bleijie said while the legislation will target only criminal motorcycle gang members, he did flag consequences for other bike riders.

"There will be some disruption to law abiding motorbike riders but we want to avoid the disruption as best we can but the police have a job to do," said Mr Bleijie.

"They have to stop particularly the people on the Gold Coast, and unfortunately there will be some inconvenience caused."

Police Commissioner Ian Stewart said it was their job to identify and intercept members of criminal motorcycle gangs.

"We make no excuses and I'm sorry for any inconvenience to the general public but if they've done nothing wrong they've got nothing to fear from our people," said Mr Stewart.

Motorcycle Riders Association of Queensland president Chris Mearns yesterday said members had already experienced "harassment" by police as a result of the bikie crackdown.

"It is of great concern to the MRAQ how the government seems hell bent on going straight for the addition of more powers to the Police Powers and Responsibilities Act every time a law and order issue is raised," said Mr Mearns.

The new laws would complement increased powers Premier Campbell Newman is expected to introduce for the Crime and Misconduct Commission, which would compel bikies to answer questions.

Anti-racketeering laws and laws banning outlaw motorcycle gangs similar to those in NSW are also expected. Some proposals could contain a one-year sunset clause.

The laws, part of the Newman Government's attempts to drive outlaw gangs from Queensland, have angered recreational bikers who yesterday slammed them as "ridiculous" and "unnecessary".

Mr Bleijie said the legislation would help put an end to bikies' "annual runs".

"There's the old saying about power in numbers and these criminal motorcycle gangs try to use their numbers to strike fear in the community," he said.

"Limiting their ability to ride in big groups would make running their criminal enterprises more difficult and it would help prevent the kind of mass intimidation we saw at Broadbeach," he said.

It is understood Mr Newman has personally briefed NSW Premier Barry O'Farrell on the proposals and wants him to help stop bikies crossing the border as reinforcements.

Mr O'Farrell met NSW Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione over the weekend to map out what NSW can do to back Mr Newman in ensuring bikie reinforcements don't come north.

The new laws will be considered by Cabinet today, with final announcements expected in the next fortnight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Effing lazy wankers is what they are. It's pretty apparent to the general population who's breaking the law and who isn't, so the government decides to target only law-abiding citizens--and I say ONLY meaningfully, because no officer in their right mind is going to pull over a gang of 15 bikers and frisk them--or even 3 hard-core bikers for that matter.

What's stopping criminal bikers from riding in 12 groups of 2? Not a damn thing.


 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
I thought the U.S. Constitution's Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment would cover this...because since in the U.S.A. a person can't legally discriminate by race, age, sex, religion, etc., so this is just as obvious to me...
U.S. Senate passes motorcyclist anti-profiling resolution by unanimous consent


The reason I mention it here is the California court just created a special class of citizen, one that wears a particular logo in a particular way (like on a vest, but not on a belt buckle)--that person is a felon, but not individually, and really none if it makes any sense. It's like saying a person is a felon by putting a jacket on when it's cold out if they're wearing a gun and the gun is then under the jacket--that's bullshit, the person didn't go from being a Dad to a criminal because of a jacket. A patch doesn't make someone a criminal. The type of vehicle one drives doesn't make them a criminal. An act committed against another person that deprives them of life, liberty, property, or the pursuit of freedom without merit--that's where authorities need to focus their efforts, on actual, factual, things that really happened.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,027 Posts
I thought the U.S. Constitution's Equal Protection Clause in the 14th Amendment would cover this...because since in the U.S.A. a person can't legally discriminate by race, age, sex, religion, etc., so this is just as obvious to me...
U.S. Senate passes motorcyclist anti-profiling resolution by unanimous consent


The reason I mention it here is the California court just created a special class of citizen, one that wears a particular logo in a particular way (like on a vest, but not on a belt buckle)--that person is a felon, but not individually, and really none if it makes any sense. It's like saying a person is a felon by putting a jacket on when it's cold out if they're wearing a gun and the gun is then under the jacket--that's bullshit, the person didn't go from being a Dad to a criminal because of a jacket. A patch doesn't make someone a criminal. The type of vehicle one drives doesn't make them a criminal. An act committed against another person that deprives them of life, liberty, property, or the pursuit of freedom without merit--that's where authorities need to focus their efforts, on actual, factual, things that really happened.
Once the idea of a logo making you a criminal catches on, and it will. The government will be able to decide who is declared to be a criminal. After the outlaw clubs HD will be next. Ride a HD or have an HD jacket, the govt says you ARE a criminal. Then it will be Indian, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Yamaha............... What's going to happen to Joe Rocket or Alpine stars? Wear one of their jackets and bam you're a criminal because the govt said so.

I don't support the illegal activities of the outlaw clubs but I hope they fight this all the way or we may all lose more freedom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
As crazy as that sounds, several states have been arresting bikers in states where they must, by law, wear helmets, because--they're wearing helmets.

https://www.nola.com/traffic/index.ssf/2017/04/motorcycle_helmets_exempt_mask.html
Authored by Rep. Alan Seabaugh, R-Shreveport, House Bill 161 proposes to exempt motorcyclists who don safety helmets from the state's prohibition on wearing masks in public. State law bars anyone in Louisiana from concealing their faces with masks or hoods, except during Mardi Gras, Halloween or for religious reasons.


Speaking on Wednesday before the Committee on Administration of Criminal Justice, Seabaugh said his bill arose out of complaints from motorcyclists in his district who say they've been harassed by "overzealous law enforcement officers." Those bikers, Seabaugh said, said they have been pulled over and ticketed under the mask-wearing law because, they said, they were wearing helmets that concealed their faces.


-----



In the state of Florida it is ILLEGAL TO WEAR A MASK!
876.12 Wearing mask, hood, or other device on public way.—No person or persons over 16 years of age shall, while wearing any mask, hood, or device whereby any portion of the face is so hidden, concealed, or covered as to conceal the identity of the wearer, enter upon, or be or appear upon any lane, walk, alley, street, road, highway, or other public way in this state.
History.—s. 2, ch. 26542, 1951.
2011 Florida Statutes
Usually motorcyclists riding in Florida won’t be hassled by LEO’s. However it can be used as a “probable-cause” to get you pulled over.





Cecil Crawford, a member of the advocacy group American Bikers Active Towards Education, or "ABATE", said one officer in particular had been targeting bikers. He did not know the officer's name, but claimed the officer had been stopping motorcyclists "at random" and ticketing them for having the helmet's visor pulled down - even though state law requires the visors.


-----


I first heard about this happening in Virginia, and although according to the law it is legal to wear a helmet, officers aren't required to know the law, so apparently a few ticket/arrest anyway as a form of harassment. Look at the law, and the following article--according to the law a person can wear a mask for the physical safety of the wearer, which is exactly what a winter mask or tightly closed hood is meant to do!



§ 18.2-422. Prohibition of wearing of masks in certain places; exceptions.

It shall be unlawful for any person over 16 years of age to, with the intent to conceal his identity, wear any mask, hood or other device whereby a substantial portion of the face is hidden or covered so as to conceal the identity of the wearer, to be or appear in any public place, or upon any private property in this Commonwealth without first having obtained from the owner or tenant thereof consent to do so in writing. However, the provisions of this section shall not apply to persons (i) wearing traditional holiday costumes; (ii) engaged in professions, trades, employment or other activities and wearing protective masks which are deemed necessary for the physical safety of the wearer or other persons; (iii) engaged in any bona fide theatrical production or masquerade ball; or (iv) wearing a mask, hood or other device for bona fide medical reasons upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver. The violation of any provisions of this section is a Class 6 felony.


Wearing a Winter Mask Still a Felony in Virginia

There are exceptions — such as for holiday costumes or work safety gear — but a cyclist dressed for a cold commute could, technically, be charged with a Class 6 felony! Naturally we’re concerned about this, as a discouragement to winter cycling, or an invitation for police to harass cyclists.




Apparently, they're such a-holes about this even makeup is problematic (I can't wait until they start arresting women wearing makeup...):

Winchester police arrested Jeremy Putnam after locals reported sightings of a man dressed as Heath Ledger’s Joker from The Dark Knight, wearing a black cape and carrying a sword. It’s not illegal in Virginia to open carry a sword, although local ordinances vary, but it is against the law for anyone over 16 to “wear any mask, hood, or other device” that covers part or all of a face (there are exceptions, including holidays like Halloween). The law dates back at least 70 years as an attempt to curtail the Ku Klux Klan. Nowadays, laws like this have been used to profile motorcyclists, charge protesters, and, in this case, stop a guy who’s not even wearing a mask from walking around.


However, makeup is not a mask— Putnam’s face is fully visible beneath his white facepaint. Furthermore, he wasn’t breaking into places or stalking people, he was just walking around. Granted, he was carrying a sword, but again... that looks to be permissible in the state. This might be the first time someone’s been charged in the state for the crime of wearing makeup, and if that’s all they’ve got him on, it’s not okay. Given the rise in comic cons in Virginia, this is a red flag for thousands of cosplayers throughout the state. The Winchester Police Department is holding Putnam on a $2,000 secured bond.




-----

This is again a clear overreach of government. (The KKK should be able to wear hoods, as the problem is not the hood...) I should be able to wear a mask to keep bugs out of my face any time, any where. Japanese wear masks to keep from catching colds and viruses in Japan, if they do the same here should we arrest them?


The problem is not a hood, a helmet, a patch, the problem is the actions of people which tangibly and forcibly disrupt society in a negative manner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Here we have another example of government overreach, although it's probably coming to light just because of the Mongol patch case...if the guy deserves to be fired, he should be fired based on his actions, but that's not what happened--and therein lies the problem.


First Your Patch, Then Your Livelihood
Hillsborough County fires an employee for his “unwavering loyalty” to the Outlaws Motorcycle Club, although he's not a member.

Clinton Neal Walker, 35, was fired from his position as a firefighter because he was [at one time] a member of the Outlaws M/C. Clinton Neal Walker is a veteran of this countries military. Serving in the Marine Corps and received a Bronze Star. In other words. HE FOUGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY AND THE RIGHT TO JOIN ANY ORGANIZATION HE DAMNED WELL PLEASES. Oh wait, because LEO’S say the Outlaws do not represent the image county employees are supposed to represent. Thus they have the right to fire someone. Why? Because Leos say motorcycle clubs like the Outlaws are a criminal organization. Again, what organization is safe? If Leos don’t like an organization. They can now cost someone their career? Is this America or is this a Police State?
(full article on Harley Liberty)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Government Out Of Control -ACLU
(click for full article)

The Department of Justice is waging a long-running campaign to silence members and supporters of a controversial motorcycle club from expressing their affinity with the club by displaying its logo. This relentless attack should trouble anyone who cares about the freedoms of speech and association.

In a filing Friday, we’re telling a federal court how the First Amendment prohibits the government from banning symbols, no matter what they represent.

Representing a club member, the ACLU of San Diego halted this campaign of censorship. The court ruled that the government had no right to seek forfeiture of the trademarks because they belonged to the club, not any individual member. The court’s rulings also underlined bedrock principles of trademark and First Amendment law, calling the government’s theory “creative to a fault.” Whatever crimes certain club members may have committed, the government misused its power when it violated the rights of others to express their identity as club members or supporters.

A trademark is a unique form of property: It does not exist apart from the business or entity it symbolizes, and it cannot be transferred independent of that business or entity. Because the government has no right to assume the identity of the Mongols Motorcycle Club, it cannot seize the club’s trademark.

Even if the government could take those rights, they confer no power to confiscate items bearing the trademark. A trademark does not confer an absolute right to prohibit all use of the mark, it only authorizes the holder to prevent purely commercial use of the trademark that creates confusion as to the origin of goods or services. That’s why the Campbell’s Soup Company couldn’t prevent Andy Warhol from painting images of Campbell’s Soup cans and Mattel can’t prohibit Danish-Norwegian dance-pop group Aqua from singing “Barbie Girl” or stop an artist from photographing Barbie dolls. Likewise, the government could not legally prevent an individual from expressing support for the Mongols Motorcycle Club by wearing its logo.

Trademark issues aside, the First Amendment prohibits the government from censoring the right of people to express their membership in or support for an association. It also prohibits the government from targeting the content or viewpoint of speech associated with a particular group, regardless of what that group stands for. The government certainly can’t prohibit people from wearing shirts or buttons supporting the Democratic Party, Black Lives Matter, or the National Rifle Association — and it can’t prohibit people from wearing the Mongols logo either.

Ignoring those principles, the government indicted the Mongols Motorcycle Club in 2013 for RICO violations, again seeking forfeiture of the club’s trademarks and threatening to confiscate items bearing the logo from members and supporters of the club. As we explain in our friend-of-the-court brief, the government’s attack on free expression remains no less illegal and unconstitutional now than when it began over 10 years ago. Neither the RICO forfeiture statute nor trademark law authorize the government’s unprecedented attack on speech, which violates foundational First Amendment principles.

Given the broad sweep of the RICO statute and corresponding abuse of forfeiture powers, the government’s novel theory threatens to set a dangerous precedent for silencing controversial or unpopular groups. History has shown that the first victim of censorship is never the last.



 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,027 Posts
Government Out Of Control -ACLU
(click for full article)

The Department of Justice is waging a long-running campaign to silence members and supporters of a controversial motorcycle club from expressing their affinity with the club by displaying its logo. This relentless attack should trouble anyone who cares about the freedoms of speech and association.

In a filing Friday, we’re telling a federal court how the First Amendment prohibits the government from banning symbols, no matter what they represent.

Representing a club member, the ACLU of San Diego halted this campaign of censorship. The court ruled that the government had no right to seek forfeiture of the trademarks because they belonged to the club, not any individual member. The court’s rulings also underlined bedrock principles of trademark and First Amendment law, calling the government’s theory “creative to a fault.” Whatever crimes certain club members may have committed, the government misused its power when it violated the rights of others to express their identity as club members or supporters.

A trademark is a unique form of property: It does not exist apart from the business or entity it symbolizes, and it cannot be transferred independent of that business or entity. Because the government has no right to assume the identity of the Mongols Motorcycle Club, it cannot seize the club’s trademark.

Even if the government could take those rights, they confer no power to confiscate items bearing the trademark. A trademark does not confer an absolute right to prohibit all use of the mark, it only authorizes the holder to prevent purely commercial use of the trademark that creates confusion as to the origin of goods or services. That’s why the Campbell’s Soup Company couldn’t prevent Andy Warhol from painting images of Campbell’s Soup cans and Mattel can’t prohibit Danish-Norwegian dance-pop group Aqua from singing “Barbie Girl” or stop an artist from photographing Barbie dolls. Likewise, the government could not legally prevent an individual from expressing support for the Mongols Motorcycle Club by wearing its logo.

Trademark issues aside, the First Amendment prohibits the government from censoring the right of people to express their membership in or support for an association. It also prohibits the government from targeting the content or viewpoint of speech associated with a particular group, regardless of what that group stands for. The government certainly can’t prohibit people from wearing shirts or buttons supporting the Democratic Party, Black Lives Matter, or the National Rifle Association — and it can’t prohibit people from wearing the Mongols logo either.

Ignoring those principles, the government indicted the Mongols Motorcycle Club in 2013 for RICO violations, again seeking forfeiture of the club’s trademarks and threatening to confiscate items bearing the logo from members and supporters of the club. As we explain in our friend-of-the-court brief, the government’s attack on free expression remains no less illegal and unconstitutional now than when it began over 10 years ago. Neither the RICO forfeiture statute nor trademark law authorize the government’s unprecedented attack on speech, which violates foundational First Amendment principles.

Given the broad sweep of the RICO statute and corresponding abuse of forfeiture powers, the government’s novel theory threatens to set a dangerous precedent for silencing controversial or unpopular groups. History has shown that the first victim of censorship is never the last.



It won't be long before they come after us. They probably think a bunch of middle age men, with jobs, wife , kids and mortgage riding Hondas are going to be trouble..............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #12


Wankers Try To Be Sly
(from ABATE)

ABATE of California is looking out for your rights on both big and small issues. Recently Gill Mellon, ABATE P.R., brought to our attention these meters in the 300 block of Cliff Drive, a public street, in Laguna Beach California. Clearly a violation of rights and profiling. Gill contacted the City and our business member Russ Brown Attorneys who also contacted the City. The City admitted to Russ Brown that yes it is illegal to do and they were working on removing the stickers. We are watching the progress on this.

We are also asking YOU to watch for things like this and let us know so we can follow up with an attorney. One give away on this was the sticker itself. Typically a sign restricting your rights will have on it a reference to the Vehicle code that authorizes it. Nothing on this sticker. So well done Gill and Russ Brown and everyone keep your eyes open for violations of your rights.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
This is from about one year ago, another California incident. (Thankfully we don't have this in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.)

Note this probably has little to do with officers in general (other than a select few), it has everything to do with the Commanding Officer and the department. Like every profession there are a few bad apples, and that shouldn't taint the whole bunch. (We have a few bad bikers too (
), and that doesn't mean all bikers are bad.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=pZN4fDjL17M
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Mongols Patch Re-Ruled "Freedom of Speech"
(02/27/2019 Santa Ana, California, U.S.A.)





U.S. District Judge David Carter said in a 51-page ruling that seizing the Mongol's trademarks would violate the group’s First Amendment right to free speech and the excessive fines clause of the Eighth Amendment. "There is no evidence that forfeiture of collective membership marks will lead to a less violent or capable organization." "Not everything repugnant is unconstitutional, and what does the government plan to do with the tattoos on members’ backs, arms and other body parts? … That certain individual members of the Mongol Nation displayed the symbols while committing violent crimes or were rewarded with other patches for the commission of crimes does not justify the government’s attempts to bootstrap a conviction of the motorcycle club into censorship of uncharged members or supporters."

Unfortunately Carter upheld the racketeering conviction of the club and tentatively agreed that the government can keep seized guns and ammunition from individuals who are club members, without due process. (In January a federal jury deemed the Mongols a criminal enterprise after finding the group-meaning all members-guilty of racketeering and racketeering conspiracy for the crimes of murder, attempted murder and drug dealing.)

Officials with the U.S. Attorney’s Office said they are disappointed by the ruling and considering an appeal before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and possibly to the U.S. Supreme Court. “The government is not merely seeking a forfeiture of the ship’s sails." "In this prosecution, the United States is attempting to use (racketeering laws) to change the meaning of the ship’s flag."

I note that pirate ships usually stocked a variety of different flags and would normally fly false colors of peaceful nations, only to lower it immediately before an attack and hoist the Jolly Roger. It's not the symbol, it's the malicious intent of individuals that's the problem.

Any attempt on the part of the government to "change the meaning of the ship’s flag" is certainly worse than restriction of Free Speech--it's putting words in other's mouths they obviously did not say nor support, a sign of a morally bankrupt and divisive government against the people.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
Mongols Patch Re-Ruled "Freedom of Speech"
(02/27/2019 Santa Ana, California, U.S.A.)

U.S. District Judge David Carter said in a 51-page ruling that seizing the Mongol's trademarks would violate the group’s First Amendment right to free speech and the excessive fines clause of the Eighth Amendment. "There is no evidence that forfeiture of collective membership marks will lead to a less violent or capable organization." "Not everything repugnant is unconstitutional, and what does the government plan to do with the tattoos on members’ backs, arms and other body parts? … That certain individual members of the Mongol Nation displayed the symbols while committing violent crimes or were rewarded with other patches for the commission of crimes does not justify the government’s attempts to bootstrap a conviction of the motorcycle club into censorship of uncharged members or supporters."

Unfortunately Carter upheld the racketeering conviction of the club and tentatively agreed that the government can keep seized guns and ammunition from individuals who are club members, without due process. (In January a federal jury deemed the Mongols a criminal enterprise after finding the group-meaning all members-guilty of racketeering and racketeering conspiracy for the crimes of murder, attempted murder and drug dealing.)

Officials with the U.S. Attorney’s Office said they are disappointed by the ruling and considering an appeal before the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals and possibly to the U.S. Supreme Court. “The government is not merely seeking a forfeiture of the ship’s sails." "In this prosecution, the United States is attempting to use (racketeering laws) to change the meaning of the ship’s flag."

I note that pirate ships usually stocked a variety of different flags and would normally fly false colors of peaceful nations, only to lower it immediately before an attack and hoist the Jolly Roger. It's not the symbol, it's the malicious intent of individuals that's the problem.

Any attempt on the part of the government to "change the meaning of the ship’s flag" is certainly worse than restriction of Free Speech--it's putting words in other's mouths they obviously did not say nor support, a sign of a morally bankrupt and divisive government against the people.
To be upfront, I haven't been following this, or even in this thread very much. I couldn't give 2 squirts of shit for any 'mongol' or wanker '1%er' douche nozzle, but this i agree with. Dovetails nicely with the new found 'right to not be offended'. Author Robin Skynner said
If people can't control their own emotions, then they have to start trying to control other people's behavior.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I couldn't give 2 squirts of shit for any 'mongol' or wanker '1%er' douche nozzle, but this i agree with.
The problem is the government is suspending human rights (guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution), something our Founding Fathers fought to escape, something we detest when it happens in other countries. The government is also suspending the Rule of Law, making themselves dictators outside the law, free to do whatever they want, to whomever they want, for whatever reason they want. Some of these people are elected representatives, others are hired to maintain the rule of law, not become brutal thugs of a self-serving establishment.


Officers Beat the General Public, Then Arrest and Charge Them

Four detectives went to Kopy’s Bar "to investigate complaints of drug dealing," or so they claim. Attorney Lee Rothman said the officers drank steadily for more than five hours, and drank “excessively” in the first hour.“They clearly were not conducting an investigation, and if they are conducting an investigation with the consumption of that much alcohol, well, then, we have a problem as citizens in this commonwealth.”

The video seems to show Pagans club members arrived about 11:40 p.m. and went to the back of the bar without speaking to the officers and played pool. The officers began focusing on the Pagans members and repeatedly confronted them, apparently starting a heated argument and flashing concealed handguns. One of the Pagans eventually shoves a detective and reportedly told them to get out of the bar to avoid trouble. The response was for detectives to pin the Pagan down and beat him.

The detectives claimed another Pagan tried pulling the two detectives off the Pagan during the beating, which to any normal person is called "breaking up a fight." The surveillance video, however, shows the second Pagan backing away from the detectives when they attacked him, beating him to the floor and then kicking him while he was down. This is the sort of behavior we would expect from gang members, not the police.

To make matters worse, the detectives-some of which had downed between 13 and 15 doubles and triples-arrested the Pagans and charged them with multiple felonies (seven, in the case of one Pagan).

Oddly, the U.S. Attorney’s Office on announced it will not file charges against the detectives a day after a federal civil lawsuit was filed by one of the Pagans. Beth Pittinger, who heads the Pittsburgh Citizen Police Review Board, said she was stunned by the decision. "I’m sure there is more to learn about, but my initial response is that it should concern everyone of us," "The officers escalated that situation. They initiated it and escalated it."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,153 Posts
The problem is the government is suspending human rights (guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution),
I am very well aware of the problems engendered by a government choosing to violate the rights of it's citizens, specially ones previously considered sacrosanct. Consider it the camel's nose under the tent.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,693 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
How I Accidentally Wound Up Running an Outlaw Biker Gang in Ohio
(full story in the link, the majority of the text is here for archival purposes only--because it's a great story!)




I knew something was wrong the second I heard Willie Beard’s voice. For one thing, he was calling the landline; he’d never done that. For another, I’d gotten to know him over the past several months, and the dude was almost 100 percent night owl, but now he was reaching out on a Sunday afternoon.

This was December 2004 in Northeast Ohio, up near Cleveland. Beard was a member of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club, the country’s most notorious outlaw biker gang. I was a founding member of the Order of Blood Motorcycle Club, the first biker gang ever sanctioned by the Aryan Brotherhood, the country’s most notorious prison gang. As far as Beard knew, we were associates and friends. He was right only about the first part. The guy had no idea that I was also an undercover agent with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), let alone that I was running an investigation involving 18 undercovers from four law enforcement agencies in northeast Ohio and western Pennsylvania.

Or did he know?

That’s the question that rattled around my skull.

“Hey, Junkyard,” Beard said. “We need to talk.”

“About what?”

“There’s something I need to show you.”

“What is it?”

“Not on the phone,” he said. “I had my car swept for bugs. It’s clean.”

Beard told me to meet him at the McDonald’s on Interstate 90 and Route 534 and asked if I could be there in 30 minutes — except he wasn’t asking.

I said, “Yeah, sure,” hung up, and looked over at my fellow undercover agents, Shorty, Brian, and Bailey. “This. Cannot. Be good.”

They agreed.

We slapped together a quick plan: They’d change out of their Nazi-themed biker gear — nothing’s more conspicuous than guys wearing SS lightning bolts and swastikas — and watch us from the lot across from McDonald’s, where they’d act as my cover team. I’d carry a gun, but I wouldn’t wear a wire; for all I knew, Beard would start our little meeting by patting me down. We all agreed that if I got in the car and Beard drove off, then I was getting out whether he stopped the car or not.

I found Beard standing inside the main door, sipping coffee. He was a big guy, fit from kickboxing, though you couldn’t see it beneath the winter jacket. I don’t even think we shook hands. He just said, “Let’s go to my car,” so I followed him to the parking lot, and we got into his small SUV.

When the doors were closed, Beard reached into his coat pocket. I thought to myself, Is this guy about to off me in a Mickey D’s parking lot? My pistol was tucked into the right-side waistband of my jeans and covered by my old Carhartt work coat. I watched Beard’s hands and leaned toward him a bit in case I needed to draw my gun.

But I didn’t. Beard pulled out a small envelope that I noticed was addressed to the Lake East chapter of the Hells Angels — Beard’s chapter. He handed it to me and said, “Take a look.”

It had photocopies of two pictures. Next to one picture, someone had written, “Nazi Jim — ATF Agent.” Next to the other one: “Bailey — ATF Agent.”

I did my best to play it cool. Beard looked at me and said, “Are these dudes in your club? Is that Nazi Jim? Is that Bailey?”

I studied the picture like I meant it. That was Nazi Jim alright, and yeah, he was an ATF agent and a member of the Order of Blood Motorcycle Club. The guy labeled as Bailey was actually a different ATF agent with a similar look and build; the picture was so grainy that he’d been misidentified.

After a few seconds of looking at the pictures, I turned to Beard and shook my head. I said, “I’ve never seen these guys before.”

Then I waited for him to make his next move.

* * *

How exactly did I become the co-leader of a motorcycle gang sanctioned by the Aryan Brotherhood? To be honest, it kind of happened by accident. The agency never said, “Hey, Frank, go out and befriend a bunch of Aryan Brotherhood members and help start their motorcycle gang.” I was never told I’d be palling around with some of the Ohio Aryan Brotherhood’s most notorious members. But things never go as expected when you work undercover.

By that point in my career, I’d spent the better part of 18 years working undercover for the ATF. My specialty was outlaw biker-gang infiltrations. I should mention here that they call themselves “motorcycle clubs.” But these aren’t groups of Sunday cruisers. They have track records as criminal enterprises, which is why law enforcement (and respectable humans) refer to them as gangs.

By 2004, I’d infiltrated the Brothers Motorcycle Club in Columbus, Ohio, and the Vagos club out in Las Vegas. I’d been in a couple armed standoffs and heard a major gang leader order a hit on another undercover ATF agent who happened to be my best friend, Darrin Kozlowski. I’d also played undercover support roles in cases targeting the Outlaws, the Mongols, and the Warlocks. All told, a handful of guys and I, who collectively dedicated hundreds of years on these cases, put hundreds of seriously bad people behind bars for armed violent crimes, attempted murder, weapons sales, and countless other charges. And I picked up a lot of tattoos along the way.

In 2001, when I got to the ATF field office in Youngstown, Ohio, I wasn’t supposed to be undercover; I was supposed to be running my group and spending some much-needed time with my wife and our newly adopted daughters. I was still getting adjusted to normal life after an 18-month undercover case. I was happy for the break, but also miserable; even though I was glad to be living without the 24/7 paranoia, something was missing — that rush of living the life and catching these bad guys and beating them at their own game.

A year into my time in Youngstown, I got a call from Lieutenant Tom Doyle of the Eastlake Police Department, near Cleveland. He said, “Would you be interested in taking a look at the Hells Angels with us?” Doyle explained that there was a big Hells Angels presence up there; the Lake East and Cleveland chapters ran a lot of drugs and weapons, but law enforcement just couldn’t get the evidence they needed. Doyle said he had a confidential informant—a member of the Aryan Brotherhood who’d nearly beat a guy to death in a bar was facing hard time and hoping to knock a few years off his sentence. So ATF formed a task force with the Eastlake police, the Lake County Sheriff’s Office, and the Ohio State Adult Parole Authority.

When we met the confidential informant — we call them CIs — he told us about another Aryan Brotherhood member, James “Aryan Jim” Blomquist, who went by AJ.

AJ knew how to build machine guns.

The plan was for our CI to introduce AJ to an undercover agent whose street name was Nazi Jim, have the agent buy some machine guns from him, and shut him down. I’d run things from the field office. But when the meet day came, I asked the CI what he’d told AJ about my undercover guy. The CI looked right at me and said, “I gave him your description.”

“My description?”

“Yeah.” The CI was a young guy, and I was about 40. He said, “I told AJ that your name was Junkyard and that you know my dad from county jail.”

“Why Junkyard’?”

“I dunno.”

“What else did you tell him about me?”

The CI said, “I told him you and my dad used to go to bars and wrestle bears.”

He said it like wrestling bears was a normal thing to do.

And just like that, I went from being a family man, to being Junkyard, a guy who wrestles wild animals in public.

* * *

Growing up Italian-American in a gritty Rust Belt city, I was exposed to a rough crowd. I was comfortable around bad guys and vice versa. At the intro, Nazi Jim and AJ and I spent two or three hours drinking beers and whatnot. I dropped little hints of some of my criminal business — enough to let him know I was looking for opportunities. AJ was way more forthright. He told me straight up, “I’m a captain in the Aryan Brotherhood,” and pulled down his shirt collar to show me the tattoo on his chest indicating his rank.

Soon enough he told me that if I could get all the parts for machine guns, then he could build them for me. No serial numbers. Totally untraceable. Later, I went online and ordered all the parts, then dropped them with AJ a couple days later. A few days after that, Nazi Jim and I met him in a parking lot outside Cleveland. There were three Sten machine guns with 20-round mags, the same weapons the Brits used in World War II. They looked like they were straight from the manufacturer. A few days later, we asked AJ to make 10 more. We said we’d pay $500 apiece.

AJ started calling me every morning just to shoot the shit. I was supposed to be bowing out but I told my boss, “Hey, I gotta keep going. He’s expecting me to be involved. He likes me.” (I did not like AJ.) I had to twist some arms at ATF, but soon I was also buying drugs and contraband from AJ.

On one of our calls, we got to talking about our love of money and how we wanted to make more. AJ knew I rode motorcycles, and before long he said, “You know, my Aryan brothers and me, we’ve been trying to get a motorcycle club going for a long time.”

AJ wanted to help the Aryan Brotherhood get control of drug and weapons sales in northeast Ohio, which required competing with the Hells Angels and their criminal network. From there, he proposed, they’d take it nationwide. The way AJ saw it, if he was gonna go head-to-head with a motorcycle club, he had to be part of one, and that organization had to have serious power.

Up to that point, there hadn’t been an Aryan Brotherhood-sanctioned motorcycle club that I or any of the other ATF agents had heard about. By most accounts, it was founded in the early 1960s in California’s San Quentin State Prison and kept growing on both sides of the bars. Some Aryan Brotherhood members believed in the whole white-power cause; some just rolled with it to stay safe in prison — not that burying your head in the sand makes it okay to be a white supremacist.

On the phone, I listened patiently as AJ told me about his visions of criminal greatness, and I told him how brilliant he was. Then he surprised me. AJ said, “Let’s make this happen, Junkyard. I’ll bring five guys, and you bring five guys, and we’ll start a club.”

Neither of us had a clue how big this would get.

* * *

On Saint Patrick’s Day 2004, I brought five guys to a bar in Eastlake, Ohio. Four of them were fellow ATF agents: Ivan, Nazi Jim, JT, and Brian. The fifth, Shorty, was a deputy with the Ashtabula County Sheriff’s Department. AJ brought four guys, including John “JB” Beason, a convicted murderer on parole. JB was covered in prison tats and was a member of the Aryan Brotherhood in Ohio. David Snow was there; he was recognized as the founding Aryan Brotherhood member in the Ohio prison system. A soft-spoken redhead, Snow spent most of his life behind bars. He shot a guy while locked up, and had orchestrated an 11-day prison riot from 23-hour-a-day solitary lockdown in a max-security facility in Youngstown. Legend had it that when he got released, Snow was so accustomed to being in confined spaces that he spent six months living under — not in — his mother’s trailer.

Also at the bar was AJ’s other guy, Paul “Paulie” Geiger, who had done 10 years in a federal prison for muling dope in Oklahoma, and his friend Neil Ashley, who went by “Motor.”

We sat around drinking beer and bullshitting until we all felt comfortable enough to talk about starting a motorcycle club and getting a piece of the Hells Angels’ action. The plan was to ease in, not start a war, but eventually take over. Everyone was on board. Shorty took the opportunity to establish his role as a madman. He put one of those plastic leprechaun hats on his shaved head, jumped on the bar, and shouted, “Listen up, you Irish fucks! The Nazis are in charge now, so if you got a problem, fuck off or talk to us!”

The fact that AJ brought this foursome of ex-felons was a huge deal. A lot of times, ATF supervisors get bent if the subjects of an undercover operation don’t have felony convictions or a record of violence. Not only did these guys fit the bill, but we were confident that everybody they’d bring us would be violent felons too. That meant they’d likely be in possession of firearms — and for the ATF, criminals with guns are a good thing. After all, the bureau’s job isn’t just to go after arms dealers; it’s to take armed felons out of their communities. While other law enforcement agencies would rather stay away from people who carry weapons, ATF seeks them out. For us, a bad guy with a gun is the kind of bad guy we like to prey upon.

* * *

Our inaugural club meeting was on April 20 — Hitler’s birthday — and AJ told us he’d already come up with the name: Order of Blood Motorcycle Club. It was based on the führer’s Blood Order, a medal of honor given to certain Nazi soldiers for the work they did in the 1923 uprising of the National Socialist German Workers Party.

We moved on to the next order of business: a patch. Every biker gang has a patch that members wear on their vests or jackets. For some reason, AJ and his crew were a little cool on the whole swastika thing, so we settled on the SS lightning bolts.

My guys and I kept up appearances by renting a house in Saybrook, just outside Geneva-on-the-Lake, about an hour east of Cleveland. I won’t call Geneva-on-the-Lake a resort town, but it’s packed with tourists in summer. I lived there with Shorty, Ivan, Brian, and JT. We also had female agents come around; I can’t name them, because they’re still active. They played the vital role of befriending the wives and girlfriends of the Aryan Brotherhood guys and gathering info.

We flew our colors right outside the house. There were always a lot of bikes in the driveway, which is kind of a magnet for other bikers. Next thing we knew, random riders started coming by. It turned into the kind of house that every respectable homeowner on the block must’ve hated. There was an indoor hot tub at the place, so, late at night, when we knew we were alone, we’d unwind and debrief, knowing that the jets muffled our voices in case anyone showed up unannounced. We lived there in shifts and had our stories straight, so if JB and David Snow and AJ or any of their Aryan Brotherhood pals asked, we could say, “Shorty’s visiting his baby mama over in Warren,” or what have you. My story was that I had some criminal business in Virginia and a couple kids who lived with their mom down in Florida.

A bar in town served as our main hangout. The owner liked us and said, “Hey man, I’ve got a vacant lot down the street free of charge if you guys want to sell your stuff.” We’d set up tables and sell Nazi paraphernalia, along with our own T-shirts, to anyone who’d buy them. It’s called “support gear.” All outlaw motorcycle gangs sell it. For example, if you see a shirt saying “Support your Local 81,” the “81” means Hells Angels. (H is the eighth letter in the alphabet; A is the first.)

To this day, I’m stunned at the people who bought our stuff — just regular folks, tourists basically. It was eye-opening to me, because you know racism exists but not to the extent that Joe Six-Pack strolling by wants to give you money for Nazi gear. No one challenged us; they were probably too afraid.

There were some weird interactions, though, like when some old guys in WWII Veteran hats stared daggers at me. Those were the hardest times to stay in role. You’re standing there looking like the most despicable creature on earth, and you wanna tell them, “Hey, I have family who got shot fighting the Nazis. I even have my godfather’s Purple Heart.” But you can’t talk. One time, there was a little kid who wanted his dad to buy him one of our support shirts. The father kept saying no, but the kid wouldn’t let up. Finally, the kid said, “Come on, Dad, why not?” And father got irritated and said, “Because you’re Jewish!”

* * *
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top