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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For Cobra Speedster Swepts, what are your opinions on the differences?

Why does the PCV make you tap the throttle position sensor (which makes sense) but the Fi2000R does not? I'm a little confused there.
 

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For Cobra Speedster Swepts, what are your opinions on the differences?

Why does the PCV make you tap the throttle position sensor (which makes sense) but the Fi2000R does not? I'm a little confused there.
Because the Fi2000R functions strictly "downstream" of the ECU, which has already looked at the TPS (and other sensors) and made its fuel-requirement determinations. The Fi2000R can only ADD fuel to the ECU call-out, not reduce it. The design assumption was that the stock (Honda) settings would be, in all modes, lean of ideal (to meet EPA requirements) and therefore, you're going to have to add fuel to enhance performance at all points in the powerband. Make sense?

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Because the Fi2000R functions strictly "downstream" of the ECU, which has already looked at the TPS (and other sensors) and made its fuel-requirement determinations. The Fi2000R can only ADD fuel to the ECU call-out, not reduce it. Make sense?

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Yes it does thanks. In that regards, is the PCV better at managing fuel?
 

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Yes it does thanks. In that regards, is the PCV better at managing fuel?
Better? I'm not sure that I'm qualified to answer that question, since I don't have the PCV. But, from the literature and all the forum postings relating to the PCV, I gather that, with a computer and a USB cable, you can go in and virtually re-write the whole fuel allocation map, from too lean to too rich, IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. In reality, it seems that most of the guys end up downloading an online custom map, which may or may not be available for your particular set-up, or they buy expensive dyno time and hope that the "dyno guru's" can get it right.

So, better? In my opinion, no. With the addition of custom after-market pipes and air-intake systems, your bike will, most assuredly, require more than OEM fuel at ALL points in the powerband, and the Fi2000 provides that; in a straight-forward, 3-pot, easy-to-adjust, no-maps-to-download, real-time adjustable, format.

I have the Fi2000R, backed-up by an AFR Gauge (I think I'm the only one on the forum with one of these) which allows me to closely and continuously monitor my air-fuel ratio and I can tell you that the Fi2000R does a fantastic job of optimizing the mix for best performance.

Hope this helps.

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Awesome BarFury. I'm leaning towards the Fi2000R. My only concern was popping on decel. Most of the PCV guys say they hear none of it, and a few Fi2000R guys say they have some, but very minimal and they're still working with the pot settings to get it perfect.

I also know VTX (non-fury) riders who ditched their PAIR valve system to minimize popping on decel and they swear by it. Do any of you FURY dudes rip out the PAIR?
 

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Do any of you FURY dudes rip out the PAIR?
Some do, and others just plug it. Bottom line; if you go to after-market pipes and don't functionally eliminate your PAIR Valve, YOU WILL GET POPPING. Now, having said that, you should understand that there can be two primary sources of "popping". One, the PAIR Valve circuit, we've already discussed, which injects fresh air into the exhaust port in an effort to burn any fuel left over from the normal combustion process. The other, called "Reversion", is caused by fresh air being sucked back up the tail-pipe, combining with the hot, "left-over", unburnt fuel and igniting, producing a "pop". Shorter, almost "straight-pipes" are particularly susceptible to this effect. With some pipes, you'll never completely eliminate some popping.

Popping can also be caused by a leak somewhere in the exhaust system; again, fresh air being sucked-in, mixing and combusting with unburnt fuel.

Make sense? Hope this helps.

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Let's just say the PC5 does more and can be tweeked better not to say there's a whole lot of possible adjustment considering our fuel injection isn't AS moody with elevation changes as a carb would be. That's also why the PC5 costs more. If you simply want a good plug in controller already tuned for your cobra pipes then the Fi2000 is the way to go. If you go more extreme and do intake as well as possible internal mods and / or blueprinting then the PC5 has what you need to fine tune your engine even more.

Still I think it all boils to a matter of user personal opinion.
 

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Sorry about the rant, Kinda hope you can follow it but wanted to stay unbiased and try explaining each decently.

The Fi2000R will allow most performance changes. The way i was told the Fi2000R worked was taking signal that ECM is trying to push to the injectors and adjusts what it is originally by whatever amount for extra fuel through the RPM range. The PCV you can add more stuff to it (AutoTune, ability to run multiple maps, quickshift and possibly more im currently overlooking), and has a couple helpful tools such as a start up cycle (timer for a set extra amount of fuel to help warm up)

Tuning differences are PCV you can adjust for more or less fuel at each 250 rpm incriment based on a % of throttle. The Fi2000 is based more on carburetor tech adapted to fuel injection, so you only have 3 adjustments that control extra fuel (at idle, a fuel increase through throttle increase, and your Main fuel increase).

Comparing these you have alot more potential for fuel control with the PCV (even though general applications would not really be demanding enough to see a gain with the extra control). Good thing about Fi2000 is its very simple so most people can figure it out. Good thing about PCV is if you use a good Dyno tech or you know how to DIY an accurate tune, you can end up with the overall better tune.

I recently tuned my PCV and set up the Start cycle, it acts like a choke so i have no issues at all with running my bike cold. Your laptop while PCV is running displays the RPM's and % throttle accuratly, so as you run through the table properties and figure out the running characteristics there you can figure out about how much fuel to add or take away. Tuning the PCV if you have an idea of what your doing takes a decent amount of time though if you have limited resources, and once im done with my intake im going to send it to the dyno shop for a couple of hours which they are much more capible of doing everything efficiently and hopefully more accuratly.

Dyno Time is roughly 80ish an hour around here.

Adding Autotune you still need an idea of what AFR properties you want and would have to adjust the PCV to those but the autotune will keep the bike locked at those properties. With running multiple maps on the PCV you can have one for just getting around town, then another one more agressive for if you go to the track or want to play around a little more on the bike.

Where i purchased my PCV the cost difference was $40, My reason for buying PCV is that i have already used it so am fairly comfortable with it, and dont know exactly how far im mechanicaly taking the bike so wanted the extra tuning capibility. Even if i would have went with the Dobeck, Fuggin or Cobra I probably would have still Dyno-ed the bike
 

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i just put the spike intake on with my cobra swepts and fi2000.all i had to do was bump the cobra up 1 notch on idle and 1 notch on high cruise.runs great and no sign of lean condition.no popping or backfireing.total of 15 minuts to adjust and test ride.not saying the fi2000 is better than the rest,its just my prefrence.
 

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Damn I'm surprised I haven't seen a fist fight in here yet over this subject lol. Lmfao Sea Dawg I can see your blood pressure rising lol...Good information as always BarFury!
 

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Both aftermarket fuel controllers operate "downstream" of the Fury ECM fuel controller. Their only function is to adjust the pulse width (length of fuel injector open time) of each injection pulse supplied by the factory controller (ECM). The only input required is how much fuel is being ask for during each injector fuel spray. There are two ways to determine the demand. The PCV utilizes the Fury's measured throttle position signal by connecting a wire to the throttle position sensor and the Fi2000 utilizes the duration or electrical pulse width of the injector to which it is already connected. There is an inherent advantage to using the Fury's pulse width signal to measure demand since it utilizes all of the Fury ECM's inputs instead of just the TPS signal. The Fi2000 is referred to as a load based system and offers fueling adjustments based on the Fury's throttle position, manifold pressure and intake air temperature.

The PCV offers the user an opportunity to customize literally 100's of fueling adjustments at various rpm and throttle openings established on dyno runs where as the Fi2000's 3 settings of cruise, acceleration and full power are simpler to set up and can be done under actual riding conditions.
Nice summary to them Gar. I didnt know the Fi2000 pulled manifold Pressure and intake temp though, thought it was just a step on the fuel distribution based on the pot's positioning kinda where its X- amount more with pot 1 and 3 adjustment and an exponential increase based on RPM for 2nd pot.
 

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The Fi2000 is referred to as a load based system and offers fueling adjustments based on the Fury's throttle position, manifold pressure and intake air temperature.

Since this product does not connect to the MAP, IAT or TPS how does it do this? Yes it bases it's adjustments on top of the injector pulse width which has already been calculated by the ECU but so does the Power Commander.
 

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Since this product does not connect to the MAP, IAT or TPS how does it do this? Yes it bases it's adjustments on top of the injector pulse width which has already been calculated by the ECU but so does the Power Commander.
Elementary, my dear Watson; it simply adds milli-seconds to whatever comes down the line. The MAP, IAT or TPS inputs have already been sensed, interpolated and plotted by the ECU. So you're saying that the Power Commander can't go negative from the baseline ECU map? Interesting.........

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Elemental, my dear Watson; it simply adds milli-seconds to whatever comes down the line. The MAP, IAT or TPS inputs have already been sensed, interpolated and plotted by the ECU. So you're saying that the Power Commander can't go negative from the baseline ECU map? Interesting.........

Cheers
Nahh the PCV in that reguard would do the same thing if your basing it off that. Based on %throttle and RPM, it increases the stock fuel flow by whatever % increase or decrease. only way you could eliminate any of the stock pulses data which are dictated by manifold pressure, engine temp,... would be to have a timer based fuel injection that is added completely aftermarket and would eliminate the ECU. (the flow of data would be like: stock injector pulses +throttle % = rev data --> rev data is compared with % throttle to add/decrease pulse width altering fuel)

The PCV from what i could tell breaks down the stock injector firing pattern then can tell based on that and TPS the RPM that the engine is running. After it recognises that it can increase or decrease it based on your tuning spec in the program. From that it has an idea (not exact) of what the engines characteristics are. You can add additional readings from speed sensors, temp sensors, and more which would add to the accuracy.

the Cobra from what i could tell would take the stock firing pattern and Bump it up for base flow, then have a function built in for the 2nd pot to allow the increase through the throttle curve, and the main jet pattern which is the 3rd pot.

only way you can read the ECM data would be have a device built to come off as a tap from the main harness at the ECM, or a reflash which would just change the characteristics the ECM is planning on putting out.
 

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Anybody seen my idle air adjusting tool ?? :cool:
Ya, you lent it to me, 'member? And I ain't givin' it back, 'cause I'll need it to adjust that big, slobbering AMAL SMOOTH-BORE GP that I'm mounting on my Fury. To Hell with all this high-falootin' EFI bullshit, I'm goin' back to basics! Now what did I do with those spare Metering-Pin Clips that I was savin'............?

Me and you, DAWG, we'll show 'em how to straighten-out all this fuel-mix crap, huh? LOL.

Cheers
 

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Ya, you lent it to me, 'member? And I ain't givin' it back, 'cause I'll need it to adjust that big, slobbering AMAL SMOOTH-BORE GP that I'm mounting on my Fury. To Hell with all this high-falootin' EFI bullshit, I'm goin' back to basics! Now what did I do with those spare Metering-Pin Clips that I was savin'............?

Me and you, DAWG, we'll show 'em how to straighten-out all this fuel-mix crap, huh? LOL.

Cheers
its easy.just jerk that efi crap off and stick a 500 holley on it.lol
 
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