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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So I have had alot of members asking for a consolidated version of the info found in the "Holy Grail" thread.



I asked one of the moderators if we could set up a thread that only I could post in to keep the thread from getting cluttered up but I was informed this wasn't possible so I am requesting that this thread not be commented on or questions asked in it. If you have questions please feel free to contact me through PM or in the other thread. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.







So first off let me start off by giving you Don Guhl's contact info, he is a great guy to talk to and extremely knowledgeable with stellar customer service.



Don Guhl

Guhl Motors
102 S. State St.
Ephrata, PA 17522-2411175

(717) 618-4212



Hours of Operations



Mon - Thur 9:00 AM - 5:30 PM

Fri 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM

Sat & Sun Closed



The flash costs $375 (cheaper than some fuel controllers) and that includes free overnight return shipping and comes with LIFETIME REFLASHES you just pay the shipping.

Turn around time is extremely fast if he receives it Monday thru Friday during business hours he will flash it and ship it back out same day... now that is service!!!



Here are the basic options:



1. Exhaust = Duals OR 2 into 1... choose whichever is closest to your setup.



2. Idle= our stock idle is 930rpm after the bike warms up.

He can lower your idle down to 660rpm but most people choose 700rpm so as to avoid stalling.



3. Rev limit= stock rev limits are as follows:

Stock 1st,2nd,3rd gears =5250rpm

Stock 4th gear=5000rpm

Stock 5th gear=4800rpm (this is how the bike is limited to 100mph by lowering the rev limit in 4th and 5th gears)

So if you want to break 100mph you simply raise the rev limiter.



You have the option to raise the rev limiter to whatever you feel comfortable with... its your bike so you choose but remember no one will be held responsible for your choice except you... if you have him set it to 10,000rpm and blow your engine its your fault so be smart about it.

Most people go for 6100rpm there are a few of us a little more daring that opted for 6500rpm... I wouldn't push it any further than this and when you see the dyno map you will understand why.



4. Cooling fan = the stock cooling fan turns ON at 225° and OFF at 221°



You can opt to have the cooling fan turn ON at 205° and off at 201°... this is a great option as heat is a major enemy of the engine, the oil, performance, and it is cooler on the rider sitting in traffic. The thermostat starts to open at 176° and is FULLY OPEN at 203° so by setting the cooling fan to turn on at 205° it will not run as long as you are moving with air flowing across the radiator so its not like your fan will be running constantly.



That is about it as far as options go. These 2 flashes (duals and 2 into 1) have been dyno tested on Scott's (GSK1966) bike with a cobra powerflo intake and freedom performance dual exhaust and then with the same intake and STG 2 into 1 pipes.



Your intake and exhaust play only minor factors, any free flowing intake and exhaust are going to be about the same. If you run these tunes on stock intake and exhaust it may run a little on the rich side.



High octane fuel is recommended with the flash as the timing has been advanced.



Also when you reinstall your ECU be sure the first time you crank the bike to just let it idle until the idle drops down and the cooling fan turns on (this may take 10-15 mins depending on the outside temperature) DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE!!! The ECU is relearning the IAC valve position. If you don't follow this procedure, don't complain about stalling.




Basically Don goes into the ECU'S software and reprograms it and gets rid of the factory restrictions imposed by the EPA to make the bike run as it should if the government didn't make Honda jump through hoops.



The timing has been advanced and the fuel maps optimized to give you the best performance possible. There is no need for a fuel controller this does everything for you with no piggyback controllers required.



We are getting approximately a 30% gain in power at 4800rpm which is massive and power gains through the entire RPM range.



Here is a picture of the Dyno results:







This graph shows all 3 versions Stock ECU(just intake and exhaust)in Green, Dual pipes in Red, and 2 into 1 exhaust in Blue.



I know it is a lil hard to read so here are the numbers:

Stock(intake, exhaust only)= 55.67 HP 71.17 TQ

Duals with ECU flash=63.71 HP 75.05 TQ

2 into 1 with ECU flash=67.50 HP 76.40 TQ



As you can see the power band is not only higher but longer throughout the RPM range.



Also here is a graph showing the HYPOTHETICAL TOP SPEEDS PER GEAR at different RPMs with the stock 200/50/18 rear tire(81.29 inch circumference).







I am certain that I am probably forgetting something and if so please feel free to PM me and I will add the info to this page.



I would like to end by saying that this is the best money that can be spent on this bike Bar None in my honest opinion. I have said it before and you can ask anyone who has had it done, it is like riding a completely different bike, the power that this bike has hidden within it is amazing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
UPDATE

So I was asked to give a little more info on the difference between the 2 flashes as far as dual pipes OR 2 into one and while I am not privy to the exact differences as I am not the one actually doing the Reflashing I will do the best I can.

Dual pipes and 2 into 1 pipes have different flow characteristics do to the design differences. The 2 into 1 pipes will have better scavenging effects because the pipes are joined and will help each other to "suck" the exhaust out of the other pipe and therefore out of the other cylinder before the exhaust valve closes all the way, this helps by creating more room inside the cylinder for fresh air and fuel to create a "bigger explosion" on the next combustion cycle, so properly designed 2 into 1 pipes "should" always create more power than dual pipes, this is the same theory behind headers in automotive applications.

With all that being said the engine will have differing needs as far as the air/fuel ratios are concerned and thats why there are to different flashes with regard to pipes. Will the bike still run if you flash the bike for one type of exhaust and then later change your exhaust?
Absolutely, just maybe not optimally but that is ok because with free reflashing for life you can just send it back and have him reflash it if you feel the need too.

Also I was asked to give more detail about the timing advances that have been made in these flashes.

Again I am not the one doing the actual flashing so I can't be extremely specific because I don't have hard data in front of me but I will tell you what I do know.

Our bikes in stock form have to meet very strict EPA regulations not only for pollution but also for noise. Basically the EPA steps in and says this bike can produce no more than XXX number of decibels at a given RPM, so the manufacturer has to figure out how to comply with these regulations or they don't get to sell there product here.

With our bikes if you were to look at the stock read out of the ECU you would see that the timing gradually advances all the way up to 4000rpm where it is setting at 19° advance. This is the point where Honda had to step in and do something to meet the noise limit regulations, so what did they do? They cut the timing back (retarded the timing).

The stock ECU cuts 9° of timing advance just above 4000rpm. And keeps it there the rest of the way through the duration of the rpm limit up to 5250rpm where it shuts you down.

So part of what Don does is de restrict the engines ECU by adding this timing back into the engine. This in itself makes a huge difference and then while he had Scott's bike on the dyno had added more timing into the bike. How much you ask? Well I don't really know but what I do know is that Don tends to stay a little on the conservative side of wild and crazy which is a good thing in my opinion. He will add a little bit of timing and then Dyno the bike and then add a little more timing and then Re-Dyno the bike and then, well you get the idea... time consuming but effective. Once he gets to the point where there are no gains to be made from advancing the timing then he stops and goes back to the previous timing setting where there was more power made and stays there because there is no point in pushing the timing more than necessary. He also added some timing to the lower rpms to give this bike more grunt down low, like we really needed that...:rolleyes:... of course we didn't, but we WANTED that.:D

I hope this makes sense to everyone and again if you have any questions please PM me and I will do the best I can to answer them for you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
UPDATE

This applies to my Brethren overseas and abroad.

Just FYI this Reflash is compatible with the European and Australian and Japanese bikes with O2 sensors and the ignition immobilizer.

So if anyone is holding out do to uncertainties about this,fear not, it has been tested and works flawlessly.

Also for anyone that may need help in sending or receiving the ECU into or out of the US please contact me and I will be glad to help you in anyway that I can. I know duties and customs and VATS taxes can make things cost prohibitive but it makes it easier going through me if you know what I mean ;)

I know that some of you overseas have never dealt with me but I have dealt with a few of the members in Europe in the past with shipping and receiving and I think they can vouch for me as being a stand up guy... lol

Anyway like I said if you need any help let me know through PM and I will be glad to help out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Removal/Installation of ECU

UPDATE

So I have been asked to provide instructions on removing the ECU. Although this is covered in section 6 of the service manual I will still post it here for those that may not have access to the service manual.

Step1. Remove the seat.

Step2. Remove the right side cover.

Step3. Make sure the ignition switch is OFF.

Step4. Remove the bolts holding the preload adjuster for rear shock to the frame.

Step5. Remove the fuse box and rubber seat. There is a small tab on top of the fuse box that you have to lift and then pull the fuse box out towards you and just let it hang from the wires.

Step6. Disconnect the ECUs two 33 pin connectors (1 Black and 1 Grey) there is a tab on them both that you must depress and then pull them out.

Step7. Slide the ECU towards the front of the bike. It just sits in the rubber sleeve so if it feels stuck just wiggle it up and down and it will walk its way out.

Step8. Place the ECU in a ziplock bag (to protect it from moisture while shipping) and then get a bubble wrap padded envelope and send it to Don to work his magic.

Step9. Installation is the reverse of removal.

Step10. Crank the bike and just let it idle. DON'T TOUCH THE THROTTLE!!! JUST LET IT IDLE UNTIL IT IS UP TO OPERATING TEMPERATURE. After the idle drops down then turn off the bike and restart it.

Step11. Go ride your new beast and see if anyone could wipe the smile off your face with a 2x4... lol

Step12. ADD YOUR NAME TO THE REFLASHERS EXPOSED THREAD.





 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
UPDATE

Just an addition to the previous post on removing the ECU.

I have been informed by someone in the know that the ABS bikes have 3 hard brakelines that run near the ECU and make it difficult to remove but he informs me that if you remove the rear fender as well then you can push the ECU out from the back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Manually Resetting the IAC valve

Here is the reset procedure for manually resetting the IAC valve per the service manual... THIS IS ONLY NECESSARY IF you have already performed the ECU relearn procedure for the IAC valve and are running high octane fuel and still have idling issues.

The important part in these instructions is where it say:

" Turn the slide valve clockwise until lightly seated on the IAC valve" before reinstalling it.

To start the relearn procedure:
Disconnect the battery and THEN turn the ignition switch to the ON position with the kill switch in the RUN position... leave it like this while you are manually resetting the IAC valve. Once you have manually reset the IAC valve turn OFF the ignition switch BEFORE reconnecting the battery then start the bike and let it idle until warmed up completely... DO NOT touch the throttle during this process. Once it has warmed up completely (idle has dropped down and cooling fan has turned on) turn the bike off and then restart it and ride as you normally would (like you stole it... lol).This will allow the ECU to control the IAC valve from a fully seated position while it is relearning.





 

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So I have had alot of members asking for a consolidated version of the info found in the "Holy Grail" thread.

I asked one of the moderators if we could set up a thread that only I could post in to keep the thread from getting cluttered up but I was informed this wasn't possible so I am requesting that this thread not be commented on or questions asked in it. If you have questions please feel free to contact me through PM or in the other thread. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.



So first off let me start off by giving you Don Guhls contact info, he is a great guy to talk to and extremely knowledgeable with stellar customer service.

Don Guhl
Guhl Motors
4126 Oregon Pike. Ephrata, PA 17522
(717) 618-4212

Hours of Operations

Mon - Thur 9:00 AM - 5:30 PM
Fri 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM
Sat & Sun Closed

The flash costs $375 (cheaper than some fuel controllers) and that includes free overnight return shipping and comes with LIFETIME REFLASHES you just pay the shipping.
Turn around time is extremely fast if he receives it Monday thru Friday during business hours he will flash it and ship it back out same day... now that is service!!!

Here are the basic options:

1. Exhaust = Duals OR 2 into 1... choose whichever is closest to your setup.

2. Idle= our stock idle is 930rpm after the bike warms up.
He can lower your idle down to 660rpm but most people choose 700rpm so as to avoid stalling.

3. Rev limit= stock rev limits are as follows:
Stock 1st,2nd,3rd gears =5250rpm
Stock 4th gear=5000rpm
Stock 5th gear=4800rpm (this is how the bike is limited to 100mph by lowering the rev limit in 4th and 5th gears)
So if you want to break 100mph you simply raise the rev limiter.

You have the option to raise the rev limiter to whatever you feel comfortable with... its your bike so you choose but remember no one will be held responsible for your choice except you... if you have him set it to 10,000rpm and blow your engine its your fault so be smart about it.
Most people go for 6100rpm there are a few of us a little more daring that opted for 6500rpm... I wouldn't push it any further than this and when you see the dyno map you will understand why.

4. Cooling fan = the stock cooling fan turns ON at 225° and OFF at 221°

You can opt to have the cooling fan turn ON at 205° and off at 201°... this is a great option as heat is a major enemy of the engine, the oil, performance, and it is cooler on the rider sitting in traffic. The thermostat starts to open at 176° and is FULLY OPEN at 203° so by setting the cooling fan to turn on at 205° it will not run as long as you are moving with air flowing across the radiator so its not like your fan will be running constantly.

That is about it as far as options go. These 2 flashes (duals and 2 into 1) have been dyno tested on Scott's (GSK1966) bike with a cobra powerflo intake and freedom performance dual exhaust and then with the same intake and STG 2 into 1 pipes.

Your intake and exhaust play only minor factors, any free flowing intake and exhaust are going to be about the same. If you run these tunes on stock intake and exhaust it may run a little on the rich side.

High octane fuel is recommended with the flash as the timing has been advanced.

Also when you reinstall your ECU be sure the first time you crank the bike to just let it idle until the idle drops down and the cooling fan turns on (this may take 10-15 mins depending on the outside temperature) DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE!!! The ECU is relearning the IAC valve position. If you don't follow this procedure, don't complain about stalling.

Basically Don goes into the ECU'S software and reprograms it and gets rid of the factory restrictions imposed by the EPA to make the bike run as it should if the government didn't make Honda jump through hoops.

The timing has been advanced and the fuel maps optimized to give you the best performance possible. There is no need for a fuel controller this does everything for you with no piggyback controllers required.

We are getting approximately a 30% gain in power at 4800rpm which is massive and power gains through the entire RPM range.

Here is a picture of the Dyno results:



This graph shows all 3 versions Stock ECU(just intake and exhaust)in Green, Dual pipes in Red, and 2 into 1 exhaust in Blue.

I know it is a lil hard to read so here are the numbers:
Stock(intake, exhaust only)= 55.67 HP 71.17 TQ
Duals with ECU flash=63.71 HP 75.05 TQ
2 into 1 with ECU flash=67.50 HP 76.40 TQ

As you can see the power band is not only higher but longer throughout the RPM range.

Also here is a graph showing the HYPOTHETICAL TOP SPEEDS PER GEAR at different RPMs with the stock 200/50/18 rear tire(81.29 inch circumference).



I am certain that I am probably forgetting something and if so please feel free to PM me and I will add the info to this page.

I would like to end by saying that this is the best money that can be spent on this bike Bar None in my honest opinion. I have said it before and you can ask anyone who has had it done, it is like riding a completely different bike, the power that this bike has hidden within it is amazing.
I have a cobra autotune on my fury, can i keep it on with the reflash, all i want is the rev limit raised up, and cooling fan temp change done?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have a cobra autotune on my fury, can i keep it on with the reflash, all i want is the rev limit raised up, and cooling fan temp change done?
Can you leave it on? Yes, BUT you will be missing out on a whole lot of power by doing so. One of the other members on here had the timing changed and rev limit raised but left the stock fuel tables so he could keep his cobra 3 pot fuel controller... I do not recommend this however because it is a guessing game VS. Having the complete flash and knowing that it is a fully Dyno tuned map. But its your bike, do as you please. I would sell the powerpro, and recoupe some of your money you spent on the reflash... That's what I did with my powerpro and believe me, there is absolutely NO COMPARISON to the performance of the reflash VS. the powerpro.
 

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So I have had alot of members asking for a consolidated version of the info found in the "Holy Grail" thread.

I asked one of the moderators if we could set up a thread that only I could post in to keep the thread from getting cluttered up but I was informed this wasn't possible so I am requesting that this thread not be commented on or questions asked in it. If you have questions please feel free to contact me through PM or in the other thread. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter.



So first off let me start off by giving you Don Guhls contact info, he is a great guy to talk to and extremely knowledgeable with stellar customer service.

Don Guhl
Guhl Motors
4126 Oregon Pike. Ephrata, PA 17522
(717) 618-4212

Hours of Operations

Mon - Thur 9:00 AM - 5:30 PM
Fri 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM
Sat & Sun Closed

The flash costs $375 (cheaper than some fuel controllers) and that includes free overnight return shipping and comes with LIFETIME REFLASHES you just pay the shipping.
Turn around time is extremely fast if he receives it Monday thru Friday during business hours he will flash it and ship it back out same day... now that is service!!!

Here are the basic options:

1. Exhaust = Duals OR 2 into 1... choose whichever is closest to your setup.

2. Idle= our stock idle is 930rpm after the bike warms up.
He can lower your idle down to 660rpm but most people choose 700rpm so as to avoid stalling.

3. Rev limit= stock rev limits are as follows:
Stock 1st,2nd,3rd gears =5250rpm
Stock 4th gear=5000rpm
Stock 5th gear=4800rpm (this is how the bike is limited to 100mph by lowering the rev limit in 4th and 5th gears)
So if you want to break 100mph you simply raise the rev limiter.

You have the option to raise the rev limiter to whatever you feel comfortable with... its your bike so you choose but remember no one will be held responsible for your choice except you... if you have him set it to 10,000rpm and blow your engine its your fault so be smart about it.
Most people go for 6100rpm there are a few of us a little more daring that opted for 6500rpm... I wouldn't push it any further than this and when you see the dyno map you will understand why.

4. Cooling fan = the stock cooling fan turns ON at 225° and OFF at 221°

You can opt to have the cooling fan turn ON at 205° and off at 201°... this is a great option as heat is a major enemy of the engine, the oil, performance, and it is cooler on the rider sitting in traffic. The thermostat starts to open at 176° and is FULLY OPEN at 203° so by setting the cooling fan to turn on at 205° it will not run as long as you are moving with air flowing across the radiator so its not like your fan will be running constantly.

That is about it as far as options go. These 2 flashes (duals and 2 into 1) have been dyno tested on Scott's (GSK1966) bike with a cobra powerflo intake and freedom performance dual exhaust and then with the same intake and STG 2 into 1 pipes.

Your intake and exhaust play only minor factors, any free flowing intake and exhaust are going to be about the same. If you run these tunes on stock intake and exhaust it may run a little on the rich side.

High octane fuel is recommended with the flash as the timing has been advanced.

Also when you reinstall your ECU be sure the first time you crank the bike to just let it idle until the idle drops down and the cooling fan turns on (this may take 10-15 mins depending on the outside temperature) DO NOT TOUCH THE THROTTLE!!! The ECU is relearning the IAC valve position. If you don't follow this procedure, don't complain about stalling.

Basically Don goes into the ECU'S software and reprograms it and gets rid of the factory restrictions imposed by the EPA to make the bike run as it should if the government didn't make Honda jump through hoops.

The timing has been advanced and the fuel maps optimized to give you the best performance possible. There is no need for a fuel controller this does everything for you with no piggyback controllers required.

We are getting approximately a 30% gain in power at 4800rpm which is massive and power gains through the entire RPM range.

Here is a picture of the Dyno results:



This graph shows all 3 versions Stock ECU(just intake and exhaust)in Green, Dual pipes in Red, and 2 into 1 exhaust in Blue.

I know it is a lil hard to read so here are the numbers:
Stock(intake, exhaust only)= 55.67 HP 71.17 TQ
Duals with ECU flash=63.71 HP 75.05 TQ
2 into 1 with ECU flash=67.50 HP 76.40 TQ

As you can see the power band is not only higher but longer throughout the RPM range.

Also here is a graph showing the HYPOTHETICAL TOP SPEEDS PER GEAR at different RPMs with the stock 200/50/18 rear tire(81.29 inch circumference).



I am certain that I am probably forgetting something and if so please feel free to PM me and I will add the info to this page.

I would like to end by saying that this is the best money that can be spent on this bike Bar None in my honest opinion. I have said it before and you can ask anyone who has had it done, it is like riding a completely different bike, the power that this bike has hidden within it is amazing.
OK, what I can see in the picture is that the red power curve shows the highest HP number whilst the blue torque curve shows the highest torque. I don't know why nobody else has picked this up by now, but it would mean that two pipes give higher power whilst two into one gives higher torque.....or am I missing something here???:confuzed:
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
OK, what I can see in the picture is that the red power curve shows the highest HP number whilst the blue torque curve shows the highest torque. I don't know why nobody else has picked this up by now, but it would mean that two pipes give higher power whilst two into one gives higher torque.....or am I missing something here???:confuzed:
You are correct... But the difference is marginal.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sorry, i do not have the 3 pot cobra fuel controller, it's the cobra auto tune , no settings required or guessing required, adjusts all on its own, in every condition possible, and with any mod, it will adjust itself, maybe I'm a little confused?
I am aware of the controller that you have, it is the same one I had before the reflash and it only self adjusts so far. Trust me when I tell you, IT IS NOT THE SAME AS GETTING THE FULL REFLASH. I would not trust the auto tunes ability to keep up with the fuel demands required with the advanced timing settings of the reflash. I had my ECU reflashed and left the powerpro hooked up just to test it out and the reflash performs better WITHOUT the powerpro hooked up. If you have further questions please refer them to the original "Holy Grail" thread as this one is supposed to be the condensed version and free of clutter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Didn't i read that there is a thread for everyone to post on that had the reflash done? I can't find it
Yes there is... Unfortunately I can't remember what the name of that thread is off the top of my head... Lol

But at one time people were posting there name with the next consecutive number so we could keep track of how many had been flashed.

Me personally, I have been flashed many times and it never gets old.... But then again I love boobs so go figure... Lol

Edit: found it.... http://www.furyforums.com/forum/fur...elf-re-flasher-per-agatenby-s-suggestion.html
 

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Ok I want to do this. bike still stock. gonna add pipes and an intake in the coming months. should I hold off on this till I do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok I want to do this. bike still stock. gonna add pipes and an intake in the coming months. should I hold off on this till I do?
You can do it now but it may run a little rich with the stock intake... You can drop a K&N filter in the stock air box and drill a few holes in the leading edge of the filter housing to remedy this if you wish.

This is the "Stickied" clutter free condensed thread. Please refer all future questions to the original thread found here:

http://www.furyforums.com/forum/fur...94-holy-grail-has-been-found-ecu-reflash.html

Thanks... Ride safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Just thought I would repost this in here as it kinda got lost in the original thread and I feel it answers a lot of questions that I get asked on a regular basis. The original post can be found here:http://www.furyforums.com/forum/fury-tech-performance-chat/


I'd be curious to see some quantitative numbers showing a quarter-mile run between stock or stock with fc, intake, pipes and the bike with the reflash. Not even sure we have a quarter mile run comparing between bone stock and a pipes, fc and intake bike.

I know mine is definitely peppier with fc, pipes and intake.

I would also like to see a good comparison of stock VS fuel controller VS reflash but it would need to be on a 1/4 mile track (so you would have your reaction time, 60', 330', 660', 1,000', 1,320' elapsed time, 1/8 mile and 1/4 mile MPH) on the same day operated by the SAME RIDER and do like 3 runs per bike so you can get an average for each bike in order to really be a fair assessment. Obviously no 2 riders are going to ride the same and even with the same rider and the same bike there will be variations so it would be nice to get an average for each bike.

Unfortunately the odds of getting 3 bikes (stock, FC, RF) together in one place at a track and then having all parties comfortable enough to let someone else drag their bike down a track is pretty slim I would think. But it would be great to actually have REAL WORLD NUMBERS to compare.

It goes without saying that I obviously feel the reflash is the best option out there for the price. In my opinion the only option on the market that comes close to it, performance wise, would be the PCV with ignition control BUT it can't lower the fan temp OR lower the idle. (some will argue that you can lower the idle by cutting the fuel map at idle with a PCV, but it's not the same and you are fighting against the IAC valve and ECU trying to do it that way AND it won't lower it anywhere even close to what the reflash does) not that lowering the idle improves performance.... but it sure sounds cool as hell sitting at a red light.

Lowering the fan temp may or may not actually improve performance BUT I am of the mindset that it is easier on the engine and oil and cooling system to keep it cool rather than getting it hot and having to cool it back down.

Can you buy a PCV, with ignition control, used somewhere for less than the price of a reflash? Perhaps.

Will you have to pay for shipping?
Maybe.

If you do not possess the skill set to install the PCV and have to pay a shop to install it how much will that cost???
Most shops charge $75-$100 an hour for labor, probably 2 hours I'm guessing.

Will you have to get it Dyno tuned in order to make sure that it is set up correctly?
You should.

Total all of the above mentioned associated costs up and how much have you spent on an inferior product????

Did I say INFERIOR????
Yes I did.

Why would I make such an accusation?
Because anyone with one eye and half a brain and that is willing to be honest would have to agree.

Aside from the fact that the PCV CAN'T lower the fan temp or idle, it is also a "piggyback" unit which means that it has to FOOL the ECU in order to make the changes in performance
and since it is a separate unit it is one additional piece in the puzzle to potentially fail
AND being a "piggyback" unit it also has to be spliced/tapped into the factory wiring harness in several locations such as...

The ignition coils
AND the fuel injectors
AND the throttle position sensor
AND the crank sensor
AND the speed sensor
AND a ground.

ALL of these ^^^ are potential problems if the connections come loose or get corroded and loose conductivity.

Incase anyone cares, here is a link to the install instructions for the PCV so you can see what a pain it is to install:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wIrgBoK6xfzkFQ

Now compare that to the Reflash...

Aside from the lower fan temp and lower idle options it also DOES NOT splice or tap into anything so there is no more potential for loose or bad connections than there was from the factory.

There is also NO Extra/Additional "piggyback" units to fail... it's all reprogrammed into the factory ECU... just the way Honda designed it to be.

You have Honda reliability, because only the software gets changed inside the ECU.

Absolutely no hardware gets modified and the wiring harness isn't being hacked up.

You unplug 2 factory connectors to remove the ECU and you plug 2 connectors back in....It is truly Plug & Play.

For $375 (includes overnight return shipping and free reflashes for life)
+ the cost of shipping your ECU to Don
you get stellar performance and reliable peace of mind not to mention, if he receives your ECU during business hours Monday thru Friday, he will reflash your ECU and overnight it back out to you the same day he receives it.... that is customer service second to none in my opinion.

With all of that being said, can anyone refute my statement that the PCV is inferior when compared to the Reflash???

I am not knocking the PCV and saying it is a POS, I just think that when you compare the 2 of them, why would you want a PCV???

1 argument that I heard in the past is.... "Well if I change something on my bike, like the intake or exhaust, I have to send my ECU back to have it reflashed and that costs time and money for shipping so it's more convenient for me to have a PCV so I can tweak and change stuff when I want/need to".

Think about this logically for a moment...

Once you Dyno tune your bike for maximum performance why would you want to change the tune??? So that eliminates the tweaking factor.

The argument then goes to... "Well I changed the intake or pipes so it "needs" to be retuned".
This is simply not true... I have said it before and will say it again... any free flowing aftermarket intake/air filter (i.e. K&N) will flow just as much as the next, your engine can only suck in a certain amount of air due to the size of the intake valve and the lift and duration of the cam shaft, so K&N filter in a modified stock air box OR spike OR Hypercharger OR whatever..... I doesn't change anything as far as the tune is concerned.

But what about the exhaust???

Again not a big enough difference to really matter... your still restricted by the exhaust valve size and camshaft specs. Yes a set of 2 into 1 pipes should create a little more power than a set of dual pipes due to better scavenging BUT AGAIN not a big enough difference to notice... don't believe me? Check the Dyno results and compare the dual pipes to the 2 into 1... like I said not noticeable.

If you have modified the internals of your engine then the PCV is probably your best/only option unless you are close to Don's shop where he could put your bike on his Dyno and custom tune your ECU for the high compression kit (which would be pretty bad ass IMO).

So after having broken that argument... Are there any other points/questions anyone would like to raise???

I am not trying to come across as cockey or a know it all, so please don't misunderstand, I am just trying to point out the facts and if anyone has any input I would be more than happy to hear it.

If you still have questions please feel free to ask them in the original thread and not in this condensed thread so as to keep the clutter down OR PM me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Just thought I would add this info here as some people seem to be concerned with the oil pressure being too low with the idle being lowered.

Here is a link to @AV8R 's post.

http://www.furyforums.com/forum/1098329-post24.html

And here is the pertinent info...


When the engine oil is 85°C, oil pressure is 1 Bar @ 700RPM. 950 RPM will give you 1.5 Bar.

That's 185°F and 14 PSI @700 rpm and 21PSI @ 950.

High Idling with a cold engine and oil gives 60 PSI.
 

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Just thought I would add this info here as some people seem to be concerned with the oil pressure being too low with the idle being lowered.

Here is a link to @AV8R 's post.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4128300&stc=1&d=1493272999

And here is the pertinent info...

When the engine oil is 85°C, oil pressure is 1 Bar @ 700RPM. 950 RPM will give you 1.5 Bar.

That's 185°F and 14 PSI @700 rpm and 21PSI @ 950.

High Idling with a cold engine and oil gives 60 PSI.
That link didn't go there for me. This is the thread that started it I believe. http://www.furyforums.com/forum/fury-tech-performance-chat/66097-oil-pressure-gauge.html
 
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