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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does anyone know the length of the rear brake hose, and how easy it is to access? It looks very buried inside of the bike. I gave my best search on forum and didn't get what I was looking for. Also, has anyone switched this to stainless, and improved the brake feel?
 

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I'm not sure of the length, but access is pretty easy. 1 bolt holds the junction block on the inside of the frame, a couple of clips to hold it stationary. I have stainless braided on my bike and didn't really feel much different, other than the grin it gave me cause it looked so freaking good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I appreciate the reply! This will be the last mod on my bike, but when I do it I will come back here and put an exact size for the future. My braking has always felt nonexistent... Not sure if it was because it's a chopper, or old rubber hoses, or forward controls, or because my last bike was a gsxr1000. I doubt I could lock up the front wheel if I tried. Maybe that's not a bad thing haha.

I know the stock line is like 3pcs, so I will find total replace length and update.
 

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In an attempt to 'manage' your expectations, in terms of improving your brakes. I have fitted Venhill stainless steel hose at the front and a HEL kit to the rear. Yes there is a slight improvement in brake feel but no improvement in performance. This ain't no GSXR sports machine, it needs to be ridden accordingly ;) . If the brakes were too good they would overwhelm the laid back chopper suspension.
My recommendation is to relax, slow down and enjoy the low riding vibe.
 

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I appreciate the reply! This will be the last mod on my bike, but when I do it I will come back here and put an exact size for the future. My braking has always felt nonexistent... Not sure if it was because it's a chopper, or old rubber hoses, or forward controls, or because my last bike was a gsxr1000. I doubt I could lock up the front wheel if I tried. Maybe that's not a bad thing haha.

I know the stock line is like 3pcs, so I will find total replace length and update.
The master cylinders that are manufacturerd with most of the forward controls, (in my opinion) do not perform as well as factory. Let me guess which ones you have, are they Accutronix? Changing the lines will keep it from swelling, when applied, but I don't think it will give you the feel your anticipating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The master cylinders that are manufacturerd with most of the forward controls, (in my opinion) do not perform as well as factory. Let me guess which ones you have, are they Accutronix? Changing the lines will keep it from swelling, when applied, but I don't think it will give you the feel your anticipating.
Im not entirely sure, it all came with the bike. I can't tell if it's all stock polished aluminum, or aftermarket. If I had to guess based on owners apparent preference, I think it's accutronix. The lines are 10 years old so I'll see how they feel here shortly after switched to SS.
 

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The master cylinders that are manufacturerd with most of the forward controls, (in my opinion) do not perform as well as factory. Let me guess which ones you have, are they Accutronix? Changing the lines will keep it from swelling, when applied, but I don't think it will give you the feel your anticipating.
The reason most of the forward controls feel bad compared to the factory set up is because the size of the master cylinder is different. Also aftermarket master cylinders on forward controls tend to use HD sizing, typically 5/8, 11/16 & 3/4 inch pistons. That's why I went with Supreme Legends forwards for my ABS bike as Bill makes his own master cylinders and he made one the same size as the stock ABS master cylinder. The result is my brakes function the same as stock but I have the extra room from +3" forwards.
 

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It's worth mentioning that the Non ABS bike's rear master cylinder is close to 5/8 and most after market forwards use a 3/4 piston.

The ABS bike's master cylinder is 11/16 and that is what Supreme build their ABS forwards with. Out of interest Supreme forwards for Non ABS Furys used to use a 3/4 piston but in later production they switched to 11/16 which improved brake feel and performance.

If someone wanted to trawl through all the aftermarket master cyclinders you could find a 5/8 rear master cylinder as that size is common on the lower cost HD forwards. My guess is that it would probably fit most forwards as they all seem to use HD sizing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In an attempt to 'manage' your expectations, in terms of improving your brakes. I have fitted Venhill stainless steel hose at the front and a HEL kit to the rear. Yes there is a slight improvement in brake feel but no improvement in performance. This ain't no GSXR sports machine, it needs to be ridden accordingly ;) . If the brakes were too good they would overwhelm the laid back chopper suspension.
My recommendation is to relax, slow down and enjoy the low riding vibe.
So check this out... The way this forward control is setup, the rod hits the mounting plate before barely any braking force is applied. I'm guessing they do 10%. It all makes sense now.... Wish I caught this earlier, but I wouldn't ever assume that it was faulty by design.

Tire Wheel Crankset Bicycle tire Bicycle

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Leg Tire Hood


Now I need to figure the best solution, as I literally have only front brakes.
 

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So check this out... The way this forward control is setup, the rod hits the mounting plate before barely any braking force is applied. I'm guessing they do 10%. It all makes sense now.... Wish I caught this earlier, but I wouldn't ever assume that it was faulty by design.

View attachment 241486
View attachment 241487

Now I need to figure the best solution, as I literally have only front brakes.
I think you and I have the same forward controls. Refined Cycle (if not, I apologize for the rest of the post as it looks like we have similar setups). Let's just say I'm underwhelmed. The entire setup is not rigid. That's why you're feeling like you have no braking power. The bolts used flex too much to be any good. I had the exact same issue as you with the connecting rod hitting the nut. I spaced it out with a few washers to solve that issue. See a few images down in THIS POST.

One thing that would help/solve the issue is the face that the vendor decided to use SPACERS with thru bolts instead of welding the boss right to the ARM18 as well as the pedal plate. See the boxed green. If those were tig welded to their respective pieces, then drilled and tapped, you would get much less flex out of the system. I contemplated doing this since I'm stuck with the kit. Plus he uses thin aluminum plate. They way you have to hit the brake, it doesn't just move the plate forward to back, it actually twists a bit. 6000 series aluminum is like butter and when it's that thin, it's not very strong torsionally.

Automotive tire Light Green Automotive lighting Bicycle part


The idea behind the kit is ok, the execution as far as design is poor though. Material choice could have been better, and design concept could have been executed very differently and easily which would solve much of the issues. But it was done this way because it's cheaper than the expensive kits. I basically reviewed/did a write up on this kit in the link/thread I posted above.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
I think you and I have the same forward controls. Refined Cycle (if not, I apologize for the rest of the post as it looks like we have similar setups). Let's just say I'm underwhelmed. The entire setup is not rigid. That's why you're feeling like you have no braking power. The bolts used flex too much to be any good. I had the exact same issue as you with the connecting rod hitting the nut. I spaced it out with a few washers to solve that issue. See a few images down in THIS POST.

One thing that would help/solve the issue is the face that the vendor decided to use SPACERS with thru bolts instead of welding the boss right to the ARM18 as well as the pedal plate. See the boxed green. If those were tig welded to their respective pieces, then drilled and tapped, you would get much less flex out of the system. I contemplated doing this since I'm stuck with the kit. Plus he uses thin aluminum plate. They way you have to hit the brake, it doesn't just move the plate forward to back, it actually twists a bit. 6000 series aluminum is like butter and when it's that thin, it's not very strong torsionally.

View attachment 241488

The idea behind the kit is ok, the execution as far as design is poor though. Material choice could have been better, and design concept could have been executed very differently and easily which would solve much of the issues. But it was done this way because it's cheaper than the expensive kits. I basically reviewed/did a write up on this kit in the link/thread I posted above.
Thanks Krash! That was a very thorough post. I'm sure they are also from refined cycle, so glad to hear I'm not the only one with this issue. Your link even mentioned 10% braking power... We all think the same with our analogies lol. My setup is not hitting the bolt but actually bottoming out on the mounting spacer itself. I believe what I will try next is bending the connecting rod to accommodate it... That or 3D printing a cool stainless connector.

I knew something was wrong when I got it up to 40mph and just laid on rear brake as hard as I could and nothing happened... Felt like pedal would bend if any harder. I'm just glad we figured it out, because I've always been uncomfortable with how slow it stops and now I know why.
 

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Thanks Krash! That was a very thorough post. I'm sure they are also from refined cycle, so glad to hear I'm not the only one with this issue. Your link even mentioned 10% braking power... We all think the same with our analogies lol. My setup is not hitting the bolt but actually bottoming out on the mounting spacer itself. I believe what I will try next is bending the connecting rod to accommodate it... That or 3D printing a cool stainless connector.

I knew something was wrong when I got it up to 40mph and just laid on rear brake as hard as I could and nothing happened... Felt like peddle would bend if any harder. I'm just glad we figured it out, because I've always been uncomfortable with how slow it stops and now I know why.
Make sure that your ARM 18 (the one with the spring around it, green square in the left of my photo) is clocked correctly. It might be that it's clocked too far forward. It has to be in a particular orientation. I don't recall any bottoming of anything on mine. But like you see I had to shim out. It kind of looks like the nut on your threaded rod may be catching the nut on the backside of the plate. Either way, I probably wouldn't go with this system again without some re-design. Like I said, it wouldn't be hard to tweak a few things to make this WAY more robust. I reached out to the owner, but I don't think he wanted to hear feedback from an engineer...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Make sure that your ARM 18 (the one with the spring around it, green square in the left of my photo) is clocked correctly. It might be that it's clocked too far forward. It has to be in a particular orientation. I don't recall any bottoming of anything on mine. But like you see I had to shim out. It kind of looks like the nut on your threaded rod may be catching the nut on the backside of the plate. Either way, I probably wouldn't go with this system again without some re-design. Like I said, it wouldn't be hard to tweak a few things to make this WAY more robust. I reached out to the owner, but I don't think he wanted to hear feedback from an engineer...
Nothing a little fire can't fix. I think because I'm so tall I had to adjust the pedal height outward so much that they were past their design threshold. I'm not sure, but I know now that I can put tons of pressure on the brake now. I couldn't find it in the manual, but is the rear master cylinder bolt/nut adjusted for "preload" to remove unwanted pedal travel?

Automotive tire Light Hood Crankset Automotive exhaust


The picture below is a perfect example of what what hitting and stopping my brakes with this kit. When this was straight it would hit the mount itself, and stop braking. If you zoom in you can even see some scars in the metal from this.
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Blue Vehicle brake Vehicle
 
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